Moving Abroad with Intention

House Of Peregrine (01:05)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the House of Peregrine podcast. Today I'm excited to bring you Jen Barnett from Expatsi Expatsi creates ways for Americans to move abroad and they provide excursions and scouting trips, a conference and a network of professionals to help you do just that. Jen, thank you so much for coming on today. I am very excited to talk to you about this.

It's very relevant at the moment. People are really considering a move. The world is changing quite a bit. And so it's nice that we can have this conversation today. I want to start, though, by you introducing yourself to us.

Jen Barnett (01:44)

Well, thank you so much for having me. My name is Jen Barnett and I am the co-founder of Expatsi along with my husband, Brett Andrews.

House Of Peregrine (01:44)

Thank you so much for having me. My name is Jen Burnett and I am the co-founder of Expatsi along with my husband, Brett Andrews.

Nice. And tell me a little bit about before Expatsi. So just tell us where you grew up, a little bit about yourself and Brett and then we can move right in. I'm excited to get started with all the things you guys have going on. So Brett and I are both from Alabama. We lived in Birmingham, Alabama before we made the move. And I had really always wanted to...

Jen Barnett (02:06)

So Brett and I are both from Alabama. We lived in Birmingham, Alabama before we made the move. And I had really always wanted to

live abroad from the time I was a little girl. I went to a little religious elementary school. And I remember in first grade, we had France week and we set up little outdoor cafes in the hall. And I could not have been more transported.

House Of Peregrine (02:20)

elementary school and I remember in first grade we had France week and we set up little outdoor cafes in the hall and I could not have been more transported

to a world that I could see that was so far beyond know Centerpoint, Birmingham, Alabama in my little church basement and I always dreamt of moving abroad. As a matter of fact when I was in my early 20s

Jen Barnett (02:33)

to a world that I could see that was so far beyond, know, Center Point, Birmingham, Alabama in my little church basement. And I always dreamt of moving abroad. As a matter of fact, when I was in my early 20s, I

House Of Peregrine (02:50)

I dropped out of grad school and bought a one-way ticket to Paris and tried to move there. And that's when I learned that it's not as easy as you might think. So I

Jen Barnett (02:50)

dropped out of grad school and bought a one-way ticket to Paris and tried to move there. And that's when I learned that it's not as easy as you might think. So I...

came back home, of course, had my career and my life. And then I met my husband about 10 years ago. We always talked about living somewhere else. We are what they call ex-vangelical, which is to say that we were raised

House Of Peregrine (03:02)

came back home, of course, had my career and my life. And then I met my husband about 10 years ago. We always talked about living somewhere else. We are what they call ex-vangelical, which is to say that we were

raised in pretty strict church upbringing that we had found was not right for us at a young age. And when politics started changing

Jen Barnett (03:19)

in pretty strict church upbringing that we had found was not right for us at a young age. And when politics started changing,

House Of Peregrine (03:31)

in 2016, we found it to be really frightening for us personally. So we started getting serious about the idea of living abroad. We originally visited Vancouver. Because you know, everyone says, if I don't like what happens in politics, I'll go to Canada.

Jen Barnett (03:31)

In 2016, we found it to be really frightening for us personally. So we started getting serious about the idea of moving abroad. We originally visited Vancouver, because you know, everyone says, if I don't like what happens in politics, I'll go to Canada.

But the truth is, it's really, well, we went for a vacation almost. But it's really hard to move to Canada, you know, when you are older and you don't have the right

House Of Peregrine (03:49)

So you did it, you tried it.

Jen Barnett (04:01)

job skills. It's not as easy as you might think. You can't just cross the border and say, I'm here. So

House Of Peregrine (04:05)

And by older you mean...

Jen Barnett (04:11)

about, well, if you mean my age, I was 45.

House Of Peregrine (04:14)

No, but I mean, you said

when you're older, like when you're not in your 20s or a student or something. Yeah.

Jen Barnett (04:18)

right, right, right, right.

So exactly. If you've ever done the Express Entry form on Canada's immigration website, you can go in and enter, these are my skills, these are the languages I speak, this is my age, and it will spit out a little score that says how likely you are to be able to move there. And

I will tell you, we did not score highly on the express entry form between age or our personal skills. So we sort of put it on a back burner then. And then in 2020, you know, we're working remote at that point. The pandemic is happening. All the political stress is coming back with the election. And we decided to get really serious about it. And we sat...

House Of Peregrine (05:06)

and we sat,

Jen Barnett (05:10)

Brett and I like to do these retreats where we go to a cabin and plan out our next year. The cabin that we would go to had no cell service, no internet, nothing. And we would sit and make plans of things we want to accomplish. And this year we sat down and made a list of everything that was important to us for our

House Of Peregrine (05:10)

Brett and I like to do these retreats where we go to a cabin and plan out our next The cabin that we would go to had no cell service, no internet, nothing. And we would sit and make plans of things we wanted to accomplish. And this year we sat down and made a list of everything that was important to us for.

Jen Barnett (05:35)

place that we wanted to move abroad. What we wanted for

House Of Peregrine (05:37)

So this is like 2021

I don't want to interrupt you but this is like 2021 So you have a conspiracy session no, that's what I like I like to think of it. What are we what are we conspiring to do this year?

Jen Barnett (05:40)

No, you're fine. Exactly. It's New Year's Eve 2020 leading into New Year's Day 2021. went over New Year's because that's the best time, right, to make these plans. So we exactly listen.

Absolutely, and like together. you know, sometimes it's, Brett needs a little boost, sometimes I need a little boost, but on this time we both needed it. And so we said, this is what we want for weather. I will tell you it wasn't tropics, but here's what we want for weather, safety, healthcare, infrastructure, human rights, all these different things. And then after we came home, we started matching up

House Of Peregrine (06:05)

need a little boost, but on this time, we both need a little boost. And so we said, this is what we want for weather. I will tell you it wasn't.

Here's what we want for weather, safety, healthcare, infrastructure, human rights, all these different things. And then after we came home, we started matching

up countries to those criteria and made a top 10 list. We were gonna visit Costa Rica first on our list and visit countries over 10 years and then potentially retire. But we ended up visiting many of them.

Jen Barnett (06:27)

countries to those criteria and made a top 10 list. We were going to visit Costa Rica first on our list and visit countries over 10 years and then potentially retire. But we ended up visiting Merida first

House Of Peregrine (06:45)

because of some TikToks I saw and we moved it from, Mexico was in 10th place, we moved it to number one and we came here and we just loved

Jen Barnett (06:45)

because of some TikToks I saw and we moved it from Mexico was in 10th place. We moved it to number one and we came here and we just loved it.

House Of Peregrine (06:53)

it. And I said, why wait, why wait 10 years? Let's move there now. And it doesn't mean we can't still explore Spain and Portugal and all these other places on our list, but we could do it at a lower cost of living and in a better mindset because we were so.

Jen Barnett (06:54)

And I said, why wait, why wait 10 years? Let's move there now. And it doesn't mean we can't still explore Spain and Portugal and all these other places on our list, but we could do it at a lower cost of living and in a better mindset because we were so incredibly

House Of Peregrine (07:15)

incredibly stressed living in the United States. the pandemic was really ugly

Jen Barnett (07:15)

stressed living in the United States. the, the pandemic was really ugly.

And especially in places like Alabama where people would just lash out at you if you were not perceiving the pandemic exactly the way they perceive the pandemic or you didn't adapt to their personal risk tolerance, whatever. It was just constant pressure. And so we decided to make the move. It took us

House Of Peregrine (07:22)

and especially in places like Alabama where people would just lash out at you if you were not perceiving the pandemic exactly the way they perceive the pandemic or you didn't adapt to their personal risk tolerance, whatever. was just constant pressure. And so we decided to make the move. It took us

Jen Barnett (07:43)

a couple of years. We also decided to take all that data that we put together and we thought

House Of Peregrine (07:44)

couple of years, also decided to take all that data that we put together and we thought

there got to be other people in the same spot as us who are feeling this way and who want to move abroad but don't know where to start. You know, when you say you're in the Netherlands, when people say I want to move to the Netherlands, well there's a path for that, right? You can find people who can help you and you can find what the visa types are and you can start

Jen Barnett (07:51)

There've got to be other people who are in the same spot as us, who are feeling this way and who want to move abroad but don't know where to start. You know, when you say you're in the Netherlands, when people say, I want to move to the Netherlands, well, there's a path for that, right? You can find people who can help you and you can find what the visa types are and you can start the

process. But most people just know they want something else and they have no idea where to start.

They don't, they're like me running off to France or to Canada. They don't know where they can go. They don't know where we'll accept them. They don't know what they have to offer. So we decided to go ahead. No, go ahead.

House Of Peregrine (08:29)

PS guilty I Sorry to interrupt PS guilty. I've

I bought five one-way tickets to Amsterdam for a year

Jen Barnett (08:37)

Exactly, exactly. I mean, I'm glad it worked out, but it

House Of Peregrine (08:37)

Exactly, exactly. I mean, I'm glad it worked out. But I was running

towards something. I always like to tell people, go towards something instead of away from something. But right now, the world is changing so dramatically that I think people, there's maybe a new or a different kind of person who is now looking to live somewhere that matches their values a bit better. Would you say that's true?

Jen Barnett (09:02)

Yes, completely.

Absolutely.

House Of Peregrine (09:03)

I think even

here in Europe, I think there's that sentiment that maybe the stories we grew up with or where we thought we lived or maybe we've changed so much that where we live is actually kind of working against our well-being. Yes. Yeah. And so you were kind of an early, I moved in 2016, no 2015, well early 2016. You moved in 2022.

Jen Barnett (09:19)

Yes, without a doubt.

2024.

House Of Peregrine (09:33)

But

2024, yeah. And so that's like, the world has changed quite a bit for me since I moved. It feels like the entire world has shifted and there's a different paradigm. And so what you're doing is helping people who maybe, like for me, I think I was an early digital nomad. Like we were traveling, living in places for months at a time in the early 2000s. And so that, wasn't new for us to just like buy a plane ticket and try something for a year.

Jen Barnett (09:56)

Mm-hmm.

House Of Peregrine (10:01)

But that is not something that maybe is as commonplace for people, especially when they find themselves in the position of feeling really uncomfortable or maybe wanting to try something new or they've always had a life goal of living like you did out of the, abroad. And so you are providing a path for people to start that journey. That's right. to shorten this time, you know, it took us eight years. Wow. We would have happily moved in 2016, but we just didn't have.

Jen Barnett (10:15)

Right.

That's right. shorten this time, you know, it took us eight years. We would have happily moved in 2016, but we just didn't have

the tools at that point in time. So my goal for everyone else is it took me eight years, but I can help you do it in six months or two years because you can leapfrog all these mistakes that I made and go faster.

House Of Peregrine (10:48)

And so When you guys moved so you you did a travel so you were your strategy Which is a really good one by the way, please do it this way instead of the way I did it

You know, it ended up well. We ended up in the perfect spot and we did it like you a bunch of research for maybe ten years Just like traveling around before we had kids and all this stuff We kind of had an unofficial deal that we would move before our kids went to school To elementary school and so we moved here on my son's fifth birthday basically So we had a deal we made our deal and he started school somewhere else where he could learn another language was our requirement

Jen Barnett (11:16)

Great timing.

House Of Peregrine (11:26)

And so we really had that goal for our family that they would be bilingual. And so this was the perfect place for that. So we had our metrics of direct flight back to family. My husband, who is still my husband, but his company at the time, was there and he needed to fly back frequently. And our family is in Salt Lake City. So we had those requirements, biking city. So Copenhagen and Amsterdam were our two finalists. And we really wanted somewhere where we could

Jen Barnett (11:47)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

House Of Peregrine (11:53)

be really comfortable as a family with three toddlers. That's what we had at the time. And so Amsterdam kind of hit all the lists and within two months we are here and trying it for a year. But I think, like you said, you had an eight year process. So it wasn't like we woke up one day and said, let's go to Amsterdam. It was a process. But maybe the end of it was really, really fast. so.

Jen Barnett (12:12)

Right. If you had ended up in Copenhagen, how would you have lived there? I mean, what visa type would you have

used? Is he working locally?

House Of Peregrine (12:20)

Is he working locally?

No, yeah. But at the time we came on the 30 % ruling, the highly skilled visa, migrant visa. And he was opening the European headquarters of his company so he could. Yep. But that's not normal. We feel very lucky. And the Dutch government was really wanting tech startups here. And so that was another reason, right? Like tech friendly. Like we really had a big list of

Jen Barnett (12:33)

wonderful, wonderful.

Right, right, you're right.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

House Of Peregrine (12:50)

Like, we had to fit us so well that that worked. But I would also love people to be able to, because it is an emotional journey. It's really important journey to go through, but not everyone has the skills to do it or the time to do it, to take eight years to make a choice. So I love what you're doing with Expatsi. So how did that evolve? So you're in, I love this notion that you're in the cabin and you're figuring out what both of you need. And so you make the list.

Jen Barnett (13:05)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

House Of Peregrine (13:17)

You travel to the first place and you're like, this is the place.

Jen Barnett (13:20)

Yes, it's so crazy. Honestly, like I said, there was a couple from LA who were making TikToks in Merida. And that's how we decided to come here. And I thought, it must be, you know, I'd never heard of it. It's in Yucatan State. And I thought it's probably over by LA because the couple is from LA. And then I looked and it was just due south of Alabama.

House Of Peregrine (13:34)

in a nice, comfortable way.

Jen Barnett (13:49)

It was on the Gulf of Mexico. And that's something that's very comforting to us because you grew up going to the Gulf of Mexico. And so the idea that I would just be on the other side of a little Gulf was very comforting. felt like home, but we arrived and it, we just loved it immediately. It felt like home. And the reason why we do our tours is yeah, I want you to

House Of Peregrine (13:57)

Yeah.

very comforting and helpful.

immediately. It felt like home.

is, yeah, I want you to

Jen Barnett (14:19)

see what life is like, I want you to explore, I want you to see real estate, I want you to go to the pharmacy, I want you to go to the market, all these things. But at the end of the day, it's vibes, you know? It feels like home or it doesn't. A place can look absolutely perfect on paper or certainly on Instagram, and it just has no comparison to what it is like to put your feet in this place. A big thing for us, like I said, it was pandemic.

House Of Peregrine (14:19)

see what life is like. want you to explore. I want you to see real estate. I want you to go to the pharmacy. I want you go to the market, all these things. But at the end of the day, it's not. You know, it feels like home for it, doesn't. A place can look actually perfect on paper or certainly on Instagram. And it just has no comparison to what it is like to put your feet in this place. A big thing for us, like I said, I it was pandemic.

Jen Barnett (14:47)

and we came here and there was 100 % mass compliance. And that meant a lot to us. And it wasn't, if there had been 100 % non-mass compliance, it wouldn't have been right for us necessarily, but it would have had the same impression, which was that everyone agreed. Everyone was in it together. We went out on an ecological flamingo preserve. It couldn't be more remote. I mean, it could not be more remote.

House Of Peregrine (14:47)

And we came here and there was 100 % mass compliance. It happened a lot to us. And it wasn't, if there had been 100 % non-mass compliance, it wouldn't have been right for us necessarily, but it would have had the same impression, which was that everyone agreed. Everyone was in it together. We went out on an ecological flamenco preserve. It couldn't be more remote. I mean, it could not be more remote.

Jen Barnett (15:15)

and we're in the middle of

House Of Peregrine (15:15)

And we're in the middle of...

Jen Barnett (15:16)

a lake in the middle of nowhere and there was a man on a fishing boat by himself and he had his mask on. And I thought everyone here really wants to be in this together. And the messaging on signs, sometimes they were printed and sometimes they were hand painted, but the message said, I'll take care of you, you'll take care of me and we'll take care of each other.

House Of Peregrine (15:17)

in the middle of nowhere and there was a man on a fishing boat by himself and he had his mask on.

Jen Barnett (15:42)

And you could just feel that. There was one point when we were in the mall and I was wearing ridiculous platform shoes and I just fell right on my face. And I was with Brett, you know, he was able to help me up and things. I was mostly just embarrassed, but 10 people ran over to make sure I didn't need anything. Did they need to call a doctor? Did we need to sue them all? All these things. And that sense of like,

House Of Peregrine (15:45)

There was one point when we were in the mall and I was wearing ridiculous platform shoes and I just fell right in my face. And I was with Brad, you know, he was able to help me out with things. I was mostly just embarrassed. But ten people ran over to make sure I didn't leave anything. Did they even call a doctor? Did we need to sue them all? All these things. And that sense of like

Jen Barnett (16:10)

people helping people was something that I really was

House Of Peregrine (16:10)

people helping people was something that I really was...

Jen Barnett (16:15)

needing in my soul that I didn't realize was lacking until I had it. At one point, know, our tire was low and everyone is pointing to the tire to let us know the tire is low. We pull into a gas station. One of the people follows us and fills up the tire for us to make sure that we're okay and wouldn't accept any money. Like, being human, the humanity of it was something that I was really missing.

House Of Peregrine (16:16)

that I didn't realize was lacking until I had it. At one point, our tire was low, and everyone is pointing to the tire to let us know the tire is low. We pull up to a gas station, one of the people follows us and fills up the tire for us to make sure that we're okay.

Yeah, and that makes total sense. And so in this place, you felt that and it's something you needed. And that's a really valid way to experience the place. I felt similar with the Netherlands. Like I had three kids, I needed a family friendly city. And I found myself suddenly wandering through the Rijksmuseum with three kids and guards telling us to come closer to the paintings. And that's what I needed in my life was to have a really family friendly

Jen Barnett (16:44)

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

House Of Peregrine (17:03)

a family aware city that didn't take itself so seriously. Yeah, and so it's, is that, it's a story as old as time, right? People move to different places for different reasons, but as Americans, especially white Americans, we are told the story over and over again, right? Like the place didn't suit us, so we left and went to another place. Like it's a very, and even before that, I mean, migration is a story as old as human history. And so,

But I think we've forgotten sometimes that that is true. so you... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are more places than the ones you see on TV. The world is big. So you had this resonance. And was that on your trip there, your scouting trip or your trip, your vacation to the Yucatan? Or did you experience that after?

Jen Barnett (17:35)

and possible and possible.

Yes, yes.

So that was on our scouting trip, our first scouting trip. We came in January two years ago. We decided to come again in August because we knew, you we'd read online, it gets so hot, it's so humid, it's this, it's that. Whereas in January, it's just flawless weather. And so we knew that the hottest months were April, May, June, but we couldn't come then. So we came in August to experience a hotter time.

House Of Peregrine (17:57)

We came in June, we're two years ago. Nice. We decided to come again.

the system, whereas in January it's just flawless weather.

Jen Barnett (18:18)

and to see if we could handle it, honestly, because people online just made it sound like nightmare. And we came and it was like, yeah, it's hot. mean, it's not the end of the world. It's hot. We survived. that's right. It's not like it's that foreign. Exactly, exactly. And I think the humidity is good for your skin. So.

House Of Peregrine (18:18)

And see if we can handle it, honestly, because people online just need to sound like nightmare.

Yeah, but you guys are from Alabama, right? You have strategies.

Jen Barnett (18:45)

you just get used to sweating a little bit all the time. And we just still loved it.

House Of Peregrine (18:49)

but weather is super valid way to judge a place. You have to really like the weather and accept it.

Jen Barnett (18:54)

Yeah, it is.

for sure. And then people have, sometimes they have health conditions where they can't handle heat or humidity. This is not the place for you for sure. But I did find that our tolerance changed after we moved here. For example, you know, I don't have the air conditioner on right now. It's probably in the eighties. I wouldn't even think to have it on because I have a fan on. yeah.

House Of Peregrine (19:01)

This is not the place for you for sure.

In the States you'd be cold For

Jen Barnett (19:23)

so I, you just get used to a different thing in the hottest part of the year. We get in the pool, after lunch and we kind of relax and then go back to work when it cools off.

House Of Peregrine (19:35)

those of you who are watching for those

Sorry to interrupt you. For those of us who are just

Jen Barnett (19:38)

Go for it.

House Of Peregrine (19:39)

listening and not watching, Jen has palm trees and a very beautiful pool behind her that will make us all convinced. So for those of you who are just listening, that is what she is referring to. She just steps 10 feet into her pool and then back into her house.

Jen Barnett (19:43)

You can see.

We love it and

our cost of living for it also. Our rent is about $1,200 a month and that includes a large home with a pool in a lovely neighborhood with lovely neighbors. We're very, very, very happy here.

House Of Peregrine (20:04)

And that includes a large home with a pool in a lovely neighborhood with lovely neighbors. We're very, very, very

Nice. And so tell us about, I'm so glad you've landed in a spot that resonates with you, first of all. I'm excited for you to tell us how expats he was born.

Jen Barnett (20:23)

Sure, so I am a, I'm entrepreneurial by nature. I've started businesses before, definitely less successful ones. I was really involved in Birmingham in local food. I had a little grocery store that sold products from local farmers. I loved it, I loved doing it, it was my heart. And, you know, I just starved the whole time. I lived on.

House Of Peregrine (20:24)

Sure, so I am entrepreneurial by nature. I've started businesses before, definitely less successful ones. I was really involved in Birmingham in local food.

You know, I just starved the whole time. lived on

whatever produce was going bad or things that were expiring. And it was just very, very hard. I couldn't make any money. I opened a butcher shop that also did only locally sourced continued to starve. finally got back to my background as marketing and advertising. And so I got back into my regular job and

Jen Barnett (20:53)

that whatever produce was going bad or things that were expiring. And it was just very, very hard. I couldn't make any money. I opened a butcher shop that also did only locally sourced meats and continued to starve. finally got back to, my background is marketing and advertising. And so I got back into my regular job. And

before I started Expatsi, I was head of marketing at a software.

House Of Peregrine (21:16)

before I started at SPAC, I was head of marketing at a software

firm. And it was fine, whatever. But I missed being an entrepreneur. really, really do love it. I love helping people.

Jen Barnett (21:20)

And it was fine, whatever. But I missed being an entrepreneur. I really, really do love it. I love helping people.

I just, enjoy seeing problems and coming up with solutions. And after, I also probably over believe that when I'm interested in something that other people are interested in it too. And so,

House Of Peregrine (21:31)

I just, enjoy seeing problems and coming up with solutions. And after, I also probably over believe that when I'm interested in something that other people are interested in it too. It's a common delusion among

us entrepreneurs. It's usually right though. I mean, you know, sometimes we're early adopters and you can be too early for sure. Or people are interested, but it doesn't matter because you can't make any money at it.

Jen Barnett (21:49)

Of course, of course. And so, I mean, you know, sometimes we're early adopters and you can be too early for sure. Or people are interested, but it doesn't matter because you can't make any money at it like

trying to sell produce. But so, we had spent so much time doing it and it was just very challenging. You know, we just really did not know where to go, how to go. You know, we looked at

House Of Peregrine (22:01)

I'm proud for this.

So we had spent so much time doing it. And it was just very challenging. We just really did not know where to go, how to go. We looked

at, what if we get PhDs? And then we'll draw straws. And whoever loses has to get a PhD. And we'll go that way. And what if we just really didn't think we could get jobs abroad? Our jobs were remote, but they weren't.

Jen Barnett (22:18)

What if we get PhDs and then we'll draw straws and whoever loses has to get a PhD and we'll go that way. And what if, you know, we just really didn't think we could get jobs abroad. Our jobs were remote, but they weren't going

to let us move abroad. And mine was just, it just wasn't going well. I really did not like it. And so after we came to Medida, I just turned to my husband and I said, hear me out.

House Of Peregrine (22:33)

to let us move abroad. And mine was just, it just wasn't going well.

Jen Barnett (22:48)

what if we take all this info, what if we turn it into a quiz? Because I I've been working in digital since the 90s. And a lot of times I would segment users using quizzes, honestly. And so then you can deliver personalized content, whatever. And so what if we take all this research we've done and we made a quiz.

House Of Peregrine (22:58)

And a lot of times I would segment users using quizzes, honestly. And so then you can deliver personalized content, whatever. I said, what if we take all this research we've done and we made a quiz,

Jen Barnett (23:16)

And what if we called it Expatsi? And there's kind of a joke in there because you know, a patsy is a sucker.

House Of Peregrine (23:17)

and what if we called it ex-Patsy? And there's kind of a joke in there because you know, a Patsy is a sucker.

Jen Barnett (23:25)

And so an ex-patsy is someone who is no longer a sucker. And so, and I thought, you know, it's cute. The domain was available. And what if we built it and just see if other people would be interested. Now, when we first built the first version, it was very much an affinity test.

House Of Peregrine (23:25)

And so, an ex-patsy is someone who is no longer a sucker. And so, and I thought, know, it's cute, the domain was available. And what if we built it and just see if other people would be interested? Now, when we first built the first version, it was very much an affinity test.

Jen Barnett (23:46)

I didn't sort you based on where you could actually go. I just asked questions about what you're interested in. So everybody gets Switzerland because

House Of Peregrine (23:46)

I didn't sort you based on where you could actually go. I just asked questions about what you're interested in. So everybody gets Switzerland because...

Jen Barnett (23:55)

you know, if you said, you know what? I'm willing to speak Italian, German, French, and English. Well, Switzerland got four points right out of the gate because so many people speak all those languages and things like that. So over time, of course, we refined it and we made sure.

House Of Peregrine (23:55)

you know, if you said, you know what, I'm willing to speak Italian, German, French, and English, well, Switzerland got four points right out of it. Yep. Because so many people speak all those languages and things like that. So over time, of course, we and we made sure

Jen Barnett (24:12)

to match it with the kind of visas that you felt like you had access to and your budget most importantly, right? Because certainly not everyone can afford Switzerland. And

House Of Peregrine (24:13)

to match up with the kind of pieces that you felt like you had access to and your budget most importantly, right? Because certainly not everyone can afford sports. Yep. And.

Jen Barnett (24:22)

put it out there just for our friends to take. And then on June 1st, 2022, I decided to run, you know, $10 worth of Google ads to the quiz to see what happened. And six days later, Roe versus Wade was overturned.

House Of Peregrine (24:23)

put it out there just for our friends to take. And then on June 1st, 2022, I decided to run $10 worth of Google Ads to the quiz to see what happened. And six days later, Roe versus Wade was overturned.

Jen Barnett (24:41)

And the quiz just took off. And that's when I said, this could be a job. You know, it had been our little weekend fun project.

House Of Peregrine (24:41)

And the quiz just took off. And that's when I said, this could be a job. You know, it been our little weekend fun project.

Jen Barnett (24:51)

So I went ahead and put in my notice. I put in like a four months notice to finish out some work I was working on. And in September, started working on Expatsi full time. Absolutely had no idea how to monetize it, but I thought,

House Of Peregrine (24:52)

So I went ahead and put in my notice. I put in like a four months notice to finish out some work I was working on. And in September, started working on it at the time. I absolutely had no idea how to monetize it. But I thought

at that point, think eight or 9,000 people had taken the quiz. And so as a lifelong marketer, I knew that that was. That means something, yeah. I that there was something. Yeah, I knew there was something.

Jen Barnett (25:10)

At that point, think eight or 9,000 people had taken the quiz. And so as a lifelong marketer, I knew that that was promising. I knew that there was something. Yeah, I knew there was something there.

And honestly, one of the biggest turning points came from a fortuitous connection. We had seen a site called Where Can I Live? And it was run by a couple out of Spain and we thought it was so cool.

House Of Peregrine (25:31)

We had seen a site called Where Can I Live? And it was run by a couple out of Spain. And we thought it was

so cool. And it turned out we had a mutual friend. And the mutual friend out of the blue said, I want you to meet my friends. They have the site called Where Can I Live? And I think you would like it. And they helped us start to build a plan.

Jen Barnett (25:37)

And it turned out we had a mutual friend and the mutual friend out of the blue said, I want you to meet my friends. They have the site called Where Can I Live? And I think you would like it. And they helped us start to build a plan for how to monetize

it. So our very first thing was we would recommend their services and they would pay a referral fee. And that was basically the first business that we ever got.

House Of Peregrine (25:55)

So our very first thing was we would recommend their services and then they would pay our referral fee. And that was basically the first business

that we ever got. Then over time, you we had sponsors and we started doing different kinds of consultations and research on behalf of other people. And then it grew from there.

Jen Barnett (26:05)

Then over time, we had sponsors and we started doing different kinds of consultations and research on behalf of other people. And then it grew from there. In 2023, we brought on our first sort of big sponsor.

And when we did, I said, my gosh, we need more traffic and we're gonna keep the sponsor. So we started going live on TikTok every night because of course, TikTok got me through the pandemic completely.

House Of Peregrine (26:32)

my gosh,

Jen Barnett (26:33)

And so we would go, we went live every single night in May, 2023 on TikTok for hours. And we would just answer questions about moving abroad, but we ourselves had not moved abroad yet. We were, we called ourselves armchair expats. And so we would, I know, I know in Birmingham, Alabama, we

House Of Peregrine (26:34)

that's amazing.

Jen Barnett (26:52)

would talk about it and answer questions. And from that, we started to make friends, right? Because people would come back every night and we started to have sort of regulars.

And we wanted to interact with them because TikTok is really just a broadcast medium. It's hard to interact. So we started a Facebook group. And I think the first post in the Facebook group was, when are you taking us on group trips? I was like, you know, if that's what the people want. And so I asked, their first choices were Portugal and Spain. And so we did our first scouting trips in March of 2024. We came back from our first trip that was almost a month.

House Of Peregrine (27:14)

Facebook group was, when are you taking us on group trips? I was like, you know, that's what the people want. And so I asked their first choices were Portugal and Spain. And so we did our first scouting trips in March of 2024. We came back from our first trip that was almost

a month. And then in three weeks, we sold everything we had and moved to Mexico. Wow.

Jen Barnett (27:33)

And then in three weeks, we sold everything we had and moved to Mexico.

House Of Peregrine (27:42)

Wow. So it was born before you moved. That's amazing.

Jen Barnett (27:47)

Yeah, well before, well before. mean, and I think, honestly, I think that's part of the appeal is that, and the same was true of my grocery store. I wasn't a farmer. I'm never gonna be perfect Instagram perfection, whatever. I'm just a slightly ahead of you friend who has done a little of the work for you. And yeah, it's so much relatable.

House Of Peregrine (27:54)

Yeah.

Yeah, which is huge this thought this the slightly ahead of you friend is the friend you always

yeah, yeah and and actually I think you're underselling it because it is scary the abyss of information and misinformation is wide and It's so I think you're underselling

Jen Barnett (28:28)

It's so bad.

House Of Peregrine (28:29)

what you're offering.

Jen Barnett (28:30)

You're so sweet. You're so sweet. Thank you. But I do think, you know, there are people out there and you see them and they have these perfect put together plans and stuff like that. And we were like warts and all watch us as we do this. Now, I was scared right before we moved. What are we if we're doing the wrong thing and we're selling our house and what if we're crazy? But I said, if I believe in this business, then we just have to

House Of Peregrine (28:43)

Yep.

Jen Barnett (28:57)

go for it. We have to do this thing. And I truly

House Of Peregrine (28:59)

Wow. So your community almost

came with you.

Jen Barnett (29:04)

absolutely. I mean, literally, because we filmed, we went live on the journey. We drove, know, to Medida. took eight days. And we went live as much as we could with a Mexican cell signal. But I just, I had faith that good things would happen if we could actually get it done ourselves. And it would be easier to help people out than it is to push.

House Of Peregrine (29:05)

Literally, because we filmed, we went live on the journey. We drove to Nerey, to eat eggs. And we went live as much as we could with the Mexican.

I just, I had faith that good things would happen if we could actually get it done ourselves and it would be easier to help people out than it is to push

Jen Barnett (29:33)

from behind and that's been true.

House Of Peregrine (29:33)

from behind. And that's been true. Yeah. And so today, Expatsi arranges for these trips. as we spoke about earlier, I moved sight unseen. I'd never been to the Netherlands. I'd been to Europe twice on short trips.

for work even. And so I had spoken to a friend who had lived in London and she said, have you tried Amsterdam? And I was like, it's on our list. It's one of two on our list. And she said, I would do it. I've been there a lot with my kids and that was enough. But that's a huge risk. And we were able to take it because our kids were small. Yeah, it's so bold. And I did not see that, but I did have those thoughts as we're pulling out of our house. Like I had just finished remodeling our house and we rented it like a month later.

Jen Barnett (30:09)

That's so bold.

House Of Peregrine (30:21)

And so it was bold, but it just seemed like our path. Does that make sense? Like we had made a plan, we'd made a commitment, and you were doing it in public. So that's another huge bonus for you. But the amount of work, if I would have known the amount of work and the amount of uncertainty, I wouldn't have taken the step. So we went very in blind with the amount of work, the amount of...

Jen Barnett (30:27)

Yes. Yeah, sure.

You wouldn't?

House Of Peregrine (30:46)

I mean, we've been really careful through the years of how we approach it emotionally and everything, but it is, I'm so glad that there's someone like you who can help soften it. And that's what we're trying to do with House of Peregrine as well, right? Like mindfully doing these things. There's those of us who have done it this way. And then there's those of us who were trying to help people have a softer landing. And so with Expatsi now, if someone is like ex-pat-curious, which...

Jen Barnett (30:49)

Mm-hmm.

I love that.

House Of Peregrine (31:12)

Is that how you call it? So expat is a very interesting word and I've really

spent a lot of time with this word. It means expatriation. And so what do you, how do you explain that to your clients? First of all, and then I want to go into what you guys are up to.

Jen Barnett (31:18)

Me too.

Well, speaking of this word, I will tell you, I didn't know how controversial it was when I named my company. I really didn't know. I really didn't know. there is, some people have the feeling that the term expat is reserved for people who are white or wealthy and the term immigrant or migrant is reserved for people who are brown or not wealthy. And

House Of Peregrine (31:35)

into my company. I really didn't know. I really didn't know. And there is, some people have the feeling that the term ex-pat is reserved for people who are white or wealthy and the term immigrant or migrant is reserved.

and.

Jen Barnett (31:56)

I just don't see it personally that way at all. I do think that the term expat denotes privilege.

House Of Peregrine (31:57)

I just don't see it personally that way.

Jen Barnett (32:05)

And I don't feel comfortable. know, in no other universe are we encouraged to pretend to not be privileged except in this one space. To me, I use the term immigrant and expat interchangeably except of course my name, which is the name of the company. but to even when I use, I use immigrant hashtag, right? And I can see what the other hashtags are and their points of pride.

There are points of pride that people have for having immigrant parents and things like that if you look through all the hashtags. And in a lot of ways, even when I use it, I feel like Rachel Doll is all, know, that I'm stealing valor because I'm pretending to be this person who has overcome challenges, which I really admire. Well, I'm not, I mean, I'm not going to say that I haven't overcome challenges to do this.

But I certainly haven't overcome the same challenges that a woman has when she has walked across a continent with her children in tow. And I think that acknowledging your privilege is important. And I know that what it is is that people are having uncomfortable feelings that they're working through and they want to put those feelings on me. I get it a lot in social media comments. And yeah, and I just, I let them, I just let them get it out.

House Of Peregrine (33:15)

I can imagine yeah

Jen Barnett (33:31)

You know, personally, the way I look at it is expat,

regardless of race, regardless of the country you're moving to, it denotes being able to do this in this privileged way. I get to choose. I looked at 194 countries and I said, okay, which countries can I go to? At my leisure, under no duress.

House Of Peregrine (33:56)

at my leisure, under no arrest,

Jen Barnett (33:59)

and live here in this amazing privileged way. And I just don't have a problem with it. The other thing from a practical standpoint is go look at what Google

House Of Peregrine (33:59)

and live here in this amazing privilege. And I just don't have a problem with it. The other thing from a practical standpoint is go look at what

Jen Barnett (34:12)

search insights are when someone searches for immigrant versus when someone searches for expat. And when they're searching for immigrant services, it's not what I do. And I would just...

show up in places that would be in the way of people actually reaching out to immigration agencies that they really need. I just, anyway, and I don't even know if that's what you meant to ask. Sometimes people use literal terminology like expat is when you're going for work or expat is when you're going but you're not becoming a citizen or whatever else. regardless of that kind of stuff, I do know people have strong

House Of Peregrine (34:26)

No, that is what I

a citizen or whatever else.

know people have

strong feelings about the word and I respect them and their feelings. Yeah, of course. But I think I've had a tussle with this word myself. Like, I don't identify as any of those words. So that's why we use peregrine, right? That's how House of Peregrine was born. Because peregrines are birds that exist on every continent of the world, but the word means outsider. And so that you're never going to be Mexican. I'm never going to be Dutch, but we are here.

Jen Barnett (34:55)

feelings about the word and I respect them and their feelings.

Nice.

House Of Peregrine (35:22)

and we're contributing and we're here by choice. And so that's what the peregrine does, the peregrine falcon. It goes where suits them best. They can live in any environment on the planet except for Antarctica, where it's too cold, and they can thrive there. And so that is why peregrine, yeah. I identify as peregrine.

Jen Barnett (35:35)

I love that. love that. I've often said like if yeah, a

new word, I'm totally down with a new word if someone wants to come up with something new, but for right now.

House Of Peregrine (35:43)

Yeah. No, but I,

yeah, but I love what you say about privilege and not, you know, yeah, there's just a lot wrapped up in the word. And, know, I love how you brought up being, you know, being excommunicated is another, it's, cutting yourself off. Right. And so I think it's a scary word. Everyone always asks me, are you going to give up your American citizenship? And I'm like, no, I just live here. And so, and it's, works for me and my family. And that's really important. So.

Jen Barnett (35:53)

Yes.

House Of Peregrine (36:14)

If someone feels this way though, if they're coming to the right place, because you are in fact helping people make that move, like you're enabling people to go somewhere long-term. And so what does the process look like if they come to Expatsi? You have designed something very specific and I want to hear if I'm sitting and you do say you help mostly Americans right now. And so if someone's thinking, this has been my goal.

Jen Barnett (36:27)

Yes.

Yes.

House Of Peregrine (36:42)

or I don't feel comfortable in the country right now the way it is, I wanna move somewhere else, it's always been my dream, they come to you to expatsy and what do they experience?

Jen Barnett (36:49)

Mm-hmm.

So most people show up and take the quiz. That's the first thing without a doubt. And it asks you exactly all the questions, like I said, that Brett and I asked ourselves that day in the cabin. And then at the end, it recommends 10 countries. And now, Mickelle, you would probably take the first one and just go because you're so brave. But the idea is that it is a thought experiment in a way, and especially if you're going with other people.

House Of Peregrine (37:12)

Yes.

Jen Barnett (37:21)

You take it, your partner takes it, and you compare notes, and you start to have some language around, this is what's important to me. And you get, absolutely, absolutely. And it also gives you an idea of what's possible. A huge number of people come to us and say, I wanna move to the UK, I wanna move to Canada, I wanna move to Australia. Like the hardest places on earth to get to, unless you have a job that's gonna transfer you.

House Of Peregrine (37:29)

define your values. Oh, absolutely. And it also gives you an idea of

to the UK.

Yeah,

Jen Barnett (37:48)

or urine's incredibly high demand.

House Of Peregrine (37:49)

we have to say that Immigration is not easy if you're not perfect perfect health perfect record perfect job Young like it's a lot harder. Yeah, I mean that's just Yeah, and that's a that's a fact of every country in the world almost That people may be come to you and say I I've seen this place. I know this place It's not it's the US and other countries that are very stringent about who they'll accept

Jen Barnett (37:53)

No.

Yes, and all the right skills.

They are. They are. There are easier places and harder places. So they come to us, they take the quiz, and then we have options. So we have our Facebook group. And the nice thing about the Facebook group, and listen, I police it like an absolute warden, because I will not have negative, I will not have people fight on it. I will not have people come in that either freaked out. They're absolutely freaked out right now, right? And

House Of Peregrine (38:15)

They are. They are. They're easier places and harder places. So they come to us, they take the quiz, and then we have options. So we have our Facebook group. And the nice thing about the Facebook group, and listen, I police it like an absolute woman, because I will not have negative, I will not have people fight on it. I will not have people come and they either freaked out, they're absolutely freaked out right now, right?

Jen Barnett (38:44)

They want to make predictions about all the things that are going to happen. I'm not having it because we can't, we're never going to agree on predictions. We can barely agree on what is actually, actually literally happening, but we'll never agree on what's going to happen next week. So, we work really hard to have it be a safe, loving, tolerant place, even if that means that I, that I, kick people out when they're troublesome. So.

House Of Peregrine (38:44)

They want to make predictions about all the things that are going to happen. I'm not having it because we can't, we're never going to agree on predictions. We can barely agree on what is actually, actually literally happening, but we'll never agree on what's going to happen next week. So we work really hard to have it be a safe, loving, tolerant place, even if that means that I kick people out when they're troublesome.

Jen Barnett (39:12)

They can come there and they can ask anything. And the group will brainstorm together. Some people have already made the move and they're happy to share tips. Our personal experts from around the world are there, so they'll give tips. And so they can join there. In general, I think there's a six stage process to moving abroad. And my goal is to provide guidance and services in all six stages.

House Of Peregrine (39:31)

What are my options?

Jen Barnett (39:41)

The first is ideation, which is just that light bulb that goes off that says, I could live somewhere else, you know, maybe. And that's where the quiz comes in, right? It's just, could I do this? Is it possible? Exactly.

The next stage is planning. And that is how am I gonna do this? Am I gonna, the main paths are you go to school, you get a local job, you work remote.

you retire or you invest. Those are, if you're not, you know, also there's citizenship by ancestry. If you have, certain ancestors from certain countries, but those are the most prominent paths. So we do have people who come in and they say, I, I can't do any of these paths right now. And so we talked to them about getting to a place where they can do one of those paths. You know, when Brett and I started, like I said, in 2016,

House Of Peregrine (40:20)

certain ancestors from certain countries. But those are the most prominent paths. So we do have people who come in and they say, I can't do any of these paths right now. And so we talked to them about getting to a place where they can do one of those paths. know, when Brett and I started, like I said, in 2016,

Jen Barnett (40:41)

We couldn't have gone any of those paths either. So we had to say, know, Brett, he went back

House Of Peregrine (40:41)

we couldn't have gone any of those paths either. So we had to say, know, Brett, he went back.

Jen Barnett (40:49)

to school and he studied to be a software developer so that he had skills that he could use and so on. So we talk about that. But, sometimes people come in and they can go lots of ways. They...

have enough money that maybe they could retire early, especially in another country where it's not so expensive. They own their own business, so they could go on a self-employment visa. They could do a golden visa and invest. They have a of different options. A lot of times when they're in that stage, they use the Facebook group or they book like time with me. And we work through every one of their options and weigh the pros and cons and give them a

House Of Peregrine (41:19)

could do a golden visa and invest, they have a lot of different options. A lot of times when they're in that stage, they use the lace book group or they book like time with me and we work through every one of their options and weigh the pros and cons and give them

a pat. In stage.

Jen Barnett (41:37)

In stage three,

we call that exploration. And that is, you know, I have narrowed it down to Denmark and the Netherlands, and I'm going to visit Copenhagen and Amsterdam and see which I like better. And so that's really where exactly, exactly. And that's where scouting trips come into play. You know, it's so funny, we're doing our first scouting trips to Mexico this month. And I

House Of Peregrine (41:54)

Get the vibes this is the vibes trip, right?

Jen Barnett (42:06)

have not seen most of Mexico because we came straight here and Mexico's huge. So I'm taking one of our scouting trips as a guest. I'm going to Oaxaca in a couple of weeks. I'm so excited to see, you know, and the thing is, if I end up finding a place that we like better than Merida, we can move. Listen, this reminds me, I want to tell you my putting your purse down philosophy, but let me tell you this. So,

House Of Peregrine (42:08)

we came straight here, Mexico's huge. So I'm taking one of our scouting trips as I guess. I'm going to Oaxaca in a couple of weeks. I'm so excited to see, you know, and the thing is if I end up finding a place that we like better than Merida, we can move. Listen, this reminds me, I want to tell you my putting your purse down philosophy, but let me tell you

Jen Barnett (42:31)

After you get through exploration, you've chosen your place and now it's paperwork. So sometimes you can do that paperwork from within the country. Sometimes you have to do it from within the United States. It depends on where you're going, what kind of visa type you're getting. It's the most boring step. know, exploration is the most fun step, right? Cause it's just trips, but paperwork. absolutely. Exactly. And then paperwork, know, just boring and expensive.

House Of Peregrine (42:31)

Yeah, but it gets your appetite so you can see what all the work is for.

Jen Barnett (42:59)

depending on whether you do it yourself

or you hire someone. The next stage is logistics and that's, you know, getting you and your stuff and your pets and your kids to wherever you want to be. It can be as easy or as difficult as you want to make it, depending on what you want to take with you. And then finally settling in and that's finding community. You you talked about, we have a guide on Annabet who helps people find educational programs in the Netherlands.

So we have people who could help with really specific needs in these countries. And it's languages and it's resilience. We have a resilience coach. People don't realize how important it is to be resilient to do this and be able to pivot. was, you know, CNN does a features someone every week that's an American who's moved abroad. And this past week, was this girl who moved to Spain. And I mean, she...

could not be more miserable. She's mad because they eat too much seafood. She's mad because they take siesta. And she's moving back to Florida. She's all angry. And if I came to Mexico and I expected everything to be like the US, yeah, I'd be really mad too. It's not. Listen, there are things that are like the US. I have Costco. I go to Pilates.

House Of Peregrine (44:18)

Even if you really have to, it's not a... Listen, there are things that play that you and us don't have cost to.

Jen Barnett (44:27)

But there are plenty of things that are not in small and subtle ways. You know, they don't eat green onions here. So they sell the green onions, but they cut the tops off because who would want those? So it's like trying to find the one store that doesn't bother to cut the tops off the green onions. You know, if I wanted to get really frustrated with that, or I can say, okay, what's another

House Of Peregrine (44:31)

and subtle

So they sell the green onions but they cut the tops off because you would want those. So it's like trying to find the ones in that doesn't bother to cut the tops off the green onions. I wanted to get really frustrated with that, or I can say,

okay, what's another way, what's another food I can eat instead? Yeah, and I would add to this that, yeah, there's predictable steps when you move to a new country.

Jen Barnett (44:53)

what's another food I could eat instead? And being resilient is important.

House Of Peregrine (45:05)

There's predictable, like I would say the stage she's going through is like the like grief, you know, there's the acceptance or there's anger, da da. I would say there's probably four stages of settling in. first, you know, they say, and I think that research backs this up. It's like the honeymoon phase, then reality hits, then, yeah, then there's the acceptance phase. And then there's the, you know, you sit down with your partner or whoever you've come with or yourself and say,

Jen Barnett (45:12)

Sure.

I'm in the honeymoon phase still.

House Of Peregrine (45:34)

Am I going to stick this out? Is this for real? And every year we do that. Every year we say, this for real? Do we stay? Is this working for all five of us? And it's a step that most people don't do in their daily lives. No one sits down at their kitchen table over New Year's usually like you did and like we do and says, OK, is this place working for us? This is an ingredient in our lives. This place is an ingredient in our lives. Is it working for us? And if it is, we'll stay. And if it's not, we'll try our best to choose another path.

And so I think that those phases are super important for people to realize as part of settling in. And maybe this moment on CNN, like it was time for her to go back. She had her adventure and she might learn that she appreciates where she was from more, needed it more than she realized. And so I think every person who goes abroad, even when they travel, but especially when you live, you learn more about yourself almost than you ever would otherwise.

Jen Barnett (46:29)

Yeah,

that's a big part you mentioned moving towards something instead of running away from something. And I do think that the more you are, listen, the cost benefit analysis of staying in the United States has changed, period. There are more negative things and fewer positive things, and there may be more positive things abroad. But you do have to be honest with yourself about your needs. This woman, there was another woman,

House Of Peregrine (46:33)

away

the United States has changed, period. There are negative things and fewer positive things, and there may be more positive things abroad.

Jen Barnett (46:56)

Listen, all the rest of them they love where they moved, but there was another one in late December or November and it was a lady who had moved to France and she didn't like it. And she didn't like it because the restaurant didn't make martinis and she thought the celery was wilted at the market.

House Of Peregrine (46:57)

Listen, all the rest of them, love her, they even hate her, but there was another.

You know, it's just like marriage.

It's just like marriage. Like it's never about the dishes. It's never about the martini. It's never about whatever it is about. It's really about something else.

Jen Barnett (47:25)

celery.

That is so smart. That's so smart. I mean, you like in both cases, they moved in the one, the one anyway, they moved from San Francisco to Nimes, you know, Nimes, is really small and provincial. Like it's not, if you're going to move from San Francisco, move to Paris and so on, you have to find something similar. Right. Right. And be honest with yourself about.

House Of Peregrine (47:49)

Yeah. Or sign up for something completely different, right? Like it's really important that you...

Jen Barnett (47:57)

your tolerance for it and what you can handle. Yeah, smart.

House Of Peregrine (48:00)

And we say be intentional, right? Just be intentional about

what you want your experience to be as if it's an ingredient in your life.

Jen Barnett (48:08)

I love that. That's so smart. Okay. Well, let me, can I tell you my putting your purse down strategy? Okay. So listen, do you know how when you go to work event, conference, convention, wedding, concert, any kind of event, you get there, new venue, you've got your person coat and you go in and there's like lights and music and strangers and friends.

House Of Peregrine (48:10)

Yeah.

Absolutely, I've been waiting for this, tell me.

Jen Barnett (48:34)

and there's a buffet and a bar and you're hungry and you're thirsty. And so you go over and you get that, you know, that little plastic cup of wine, and then you go over to get food. You're starving, but you only have like half a hand left. So you get like one mini quiche and you're perching it on the wine. And so you're trying to get around and remember this person's name and you go to eat the quiche and you spill your wine and you get spinach in your teeth and you just have this terrible time. But if you can go first and find a table.

House Of Peregrine (48:43)

And then you go over to get food, you're starving, but you only have like half a hand left. So get like one mini quiche and you're perching it on the line. And so you're trying to get around and remember this person's name and you go to eat the quiche and you spill your wine and you get spinach in your teeth and you just have...

Jen Barnett (49:04)

and put your purse down. Then go and get your drink and bring it back. Go and get a plate, whatever food you want, everything you need to bring it back and go and find your friend and sit down and you can sit and enjoy your drink and eat your food and get the lay of the land and figure out if your ex is there or your boss or your neighbor that you don't like. And then in 30 minutes, hit the dance floor or get wedding cake or go see a speaker and you have this great time.

House Of Peregrine (49:15)

and sit down and you can sit and enjoy your drink and eat your food and get the lay of the land and figure out if your ex is there or your boss or your neighbor that you don't like. And then in 30 minutes, hit the dance floor, get wedding cake or go see a speaker and you have this great time.

Jen Barnett (49:32)

I think moving abroad can be very similar.

House Of Peregrine (49:32)

I think moving abroad can be very

Jen Barnett (49:35)

When we got to Merida, like I said, we were gonna spend years visiting all these different places and choosing our favorite. that's when, you know, when I said, why wait, let's go there and put our purse down. And I still can visit Oaxaca in Spain and Portugal. We have a million places on our list that we wanna visit and consider.

but I can do it at this place where I'm relaxed and I'm happy. And my cost of living is so much less and as a small startup, that's a big deal. My cost of living in Mexico is about $3,000 a month to live very, very, very well. So for example, that means if I have $30,000 for my business, then I can spend 10 months making it successful.

House Of Peregrine (50:03)

And my cost of living is so much less and as a small startup, that's a big deal. My cost of living in Mexico is about $3,000 a month to live very, very, well. So for example, that means if I have $30,000 for my business, then I can spend 10 months making it successful.

Jen Barnett (50:25)

Whereas in the US, if my cost of living is $10,000 month, I only have three months to make it successful.

House Of Peregrine (50:25)

Whereas in the US, if my cost of living is $10,000 a month, I only have three months to make it successful.

Jen Barnett (50:31)

And there's a lot more work that you can do in 10 months than in three months. And so we can keep visiting places for as long as we like. I think that's really important. And especially for folks in the US who are, they're in fight or flight mode, honestly. Their heart rates are high, their blood pressure is high, they feel threatened.

from all these different sources, especially if they're in any marginalized groups. And so they're trying to make these huge long range decisions about their lives under this extreme pressure. So I think there are places, I call them kind of quick hatch options, where you can go and continue to explore and continue the planning phase, but do it from

House Of Peregrine (50:59)

And so they're trying to make these huge long range decisions about their lives under this extreme pressure. So I think there are places, I call them kind of quick hatch options, where you can go and continue to explore and continue the planning phase, but do it from

Jen Barnett (51:21)

these less stressful locations. For example, completely, completely

House Of Peregrine (51:22)

these less stressful locations. Yeah, it's like a nervous system reset. Completely.

Go where your vagus nerve says.

Jen Barnett (51:29)

go where your vagus nerve says. So in Mexico, you can stay six months as a tourist, same in Canada, the UK or Costa Rica. And of course, listen, there are tons of people in the world we know who do border runs, which is to say you stay six months, you leave for a day, you come back.

House Of Peregrine (51:45)

just to say you stay six months, you leave for a day, you come back

Jen Barnett (51:49)

and potentially get another six months. And that's not a long-term strategy. But the point is, that go somewhere where you can relax. Do your job remote through a VPN if you have to or whatever, or, you know, take a leap, use some savings, but at a much lower cost of living, not Canada or the UK, but definitely in Mexico.

House Of Peregrine (51:49)

and potentially get another six months. And that's not a long-term strategy. But the point is, is that go somewhere where you can relax. Do your job remote through a VPN if you have to or whatever. Or take a leap, use some savings, but at a much lower cost of living, not Canada or the UK, but definitely in Mexico.

Don't go to European capitals.

Jen Barnett (52:14)

You could, no, for sure, for sure.

You can also go to Albania. Americans can live there for a year with no visa at all. And then you only need to leave three months, which is exactly how long you can stay in the Schengen zone. So you can tour Europe and go back and do another year. And so if you can get somewhere where you can relax and also get this completely new perspective, what you

are going to decide that you need is going to be so different than what you're going to decide

when you were doom scrolling news all day long and it is, and you don't know, I talk to a lot of people who work in the government, they don't know day to day if they're gonna have a job, but if you can get out, your solutions are gonna be so different. It took me a month after we got here to decompress and one day I was finally in the, I was in the pool and I was just like.

House Of Peregrine (53:10)

One day I was finally in the, I was in the pool and I was just like,

Jen Barnett (53:15)

wow, the sky is so blue. It is so beautiful here. And I genuinely relaxed. It finally washed over me. And being relaxed led me to say, here's everything I wanna do in my business over the next year. Because I was in a place where could think. You just can't think when you're under that much pressure.

House Of Peregrine (53:15)

wow, the sky is so blue. It is so beautiful here. And I genuinely relaxed. It finally washed over me. And being relaxed led me to say, here's everything I wanna do in my business over the next year. Because I was in a place where could think. You just can't think when you're under that much pressure.

Yeah. And when you're running away for your either physical or figurative safety, it's a survival instead of a thriving mentality. And so I like this idea that you get out of survival first before making final decisions or spending large amounts of money or time integrating. Yes, exactly. When you choose that door, when you are going to get feces and make relocations, full relocation.

Jen Barnett (53:46)

course.

completely.

Yes, exactly. When you choose that door, you when you are going to get visas and make relocations, full relocations,

that's not a door that you want to keep walking through over and over again unless money is no object. That is where it costs and so on. And so if you can take your time to make that decision, it's helpful. Now that said,

these decisions, like you said, you sit down every year and say, is this working for our family? And the same thing is true. You are never required to stay in a place that isn't meeting your needs. So you can always move. And I do think that over the next, I don't know, 10 years, we may just all need to be a little more fluid and mobile than we have known how to be in the

House Of Peregrine (54:50)

Yeah,

especially I think I'm aware that we're too American speaking about this so we have a very similar perspective perhaps But mostly I feel I feel a little sad

if people are feeling this way. I haven't lived there for almost nine years. And so the stress you're talking about is so present when I'm there. And I forget about it sometimes. And so I hope that people will take your advice. And that is to reset your nervous system, deal with the grief that is there when maybe, because actually around the world,

Jen Barnett (55:10)

course.

Yes.

House Of Peregrine (55:36)

governments are changing in the Netherlands as well and Europe as well. isn't what we were brought up with the stories. We were brought up with different stories than maybe we're expecting experiencing right now. And so I think it's really, really, really smart and maybe healing to spend some time just resetting your nervous system and realizing that you're going through something and the whole world has gone through something with the pandemic, with the way the world is perhaps shifting in ways that we didn't expect.

Jen Barnett (55:57)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

House Of Peregrine (56:04)

it's really important and wise to do that because it is another maybe welcome but it is a trauma to change countries and move even if you're moving across the street it's a big deal but if you're changing countries and trying to integrate or learn a language it's there's always an upside and that's why you're doing it but there's also unseen things and so I think it's really really wise to to do it this way and it's much more gentle and that's especially if you have children with you or you are

in a group that is feeling unsafe right now, it's really wise, really wise. So if I come on one of your, so if I am thinking of moving and I want to come on a scouting trip with you, I want to go over that really quickly. What do you help people look at and all that fun stuff? Because I want to be mindful of your time. I could talk about this for a lot longer and I think you probably could too. So I want to just give people an idea of the scouting trip because again, really, really smart, really, really.

Jen Barnett (56:37)

Mm-hmm.

I know, too, me too, it's so fun.

House Of Peregrine (57:02)

very wise. So tell me what you're helping people to judge or experience while they're on your scouting trips. Besides fun, I'm sure they're a lot of fun.

Jen Barnett (57:11)

They are fun. Thank you so much. there are the main goal we have with the scouting trip is at the end of the trip, you know, this place is for me or it isn't. If you're on the Portugal trip that you know, I like Lisbon better than Porto. I like Chitubal better than Qashqai's. I know what I am looking for. And now I have met someone to help me with my visa, my taxes, my real estate.

House Of Peregrine (57:14)

main goal we have with the scouting trip is at the end of the trip, you know this place is for me or it isn't. If you're on the Portugal trip, that you know I like Lisbon better than Porto, I like Chubal better than Nishkaiz, I know what I am looking for. And now I have met someone to help me with my visa, my taxes, my real estate,

Jen Barnett (57:39)

in my healthcare, and that's the goal. So as well

House Of Peregrine (57:39)

and my healthcare. And that's the goal. So as well.

Jen Barnett (57:43)

as potentially some friends who also want to move there, and then we'll cheer each other on as we go. So we start off with a seminar. And so the seminar has experts who help you move there. They give a presentation and then they eat and drink with you. And the idea is that you can bring your full list of questions. Everyone has.

House Of Peregrine (57:50)

So we start off with a seminar. And so the seminar has experts who help you move there. They give a presentation, and then they eat and drink with you. And the idea is that you could bring your full list of questions.

Everyone has, you know, all these things are nervous about. Should I sell my house before or after I go? What do I do about my adult child who's also dependent? And you can ask these questions in this open environment over food and drink where everyone is relaxed and casual.

Jen Barnett (58:04)

you know, all these things are nervous about, should I sell my house before after I go? What do I do about my adult child who's also a dependent? And you can ask these questions in this open environment over food and drink where everyone is relaxed and casual and start

to build relationships with these professionals that you'll need as you move. Then day to day, we tour different neighborhoods of places where people really live. My rule is no churches, no landmarks, no museums.

House Of Peregrine (58:20)

and start to build relationships with these professionals that you'll meet Then day to day, we tour different neighborhoods of places where people really live. My role is no churches, no landmarks, no

museums. We don't do city centers. We don't do touristy areas. We see places where people genuinely have their

Jen Barnett (58:33)

We don't do city centers, we don't do touristy areas. We see places where people genuinely have their lives.

We go to the market, we go to the pharmacy, we do walking tours around neighborhoods, we see how public transportation works. I used to make everybody take public transportation and then it became the whole trip was just finding the guests. So we gave up on that eventually, but you can take it on your own, of course.

House Of Peregrine (58:42)

We go to market, we go to pharmacy, we do walking tours around neighborhoods, we see how public transportation works. I used to make everybody take public transportation, and then it became the whole trip was just finding the guests. So we gave up on that eventually, but you can take it on your own, of

Jen Barnett (59:01)

And the idea is that you see all these different ways of life. We also do real estate tours in every neighborhood. The realtors know that you're not there to buy our rent,

House Of Peregrine (59:01)

And the idea is that you see all these different ways of life. We also do real estate tours in every neighborhood. The realtors know that you're not there to buy our rent.

Jen Barnett (59:11)

you know, right there on the spot, but they're showing you like House Hunters International, this is how a family lives in Gaia. And so you see a place and if you want to stay and actually get a lease together or make a

House Of Peregrine (59:11)

you right there on the spot, but they're showing you like House Hunters International, this is how a family lives in Gaia. And so you see a place and if you want to stay and actually get a lease together or make a

Jen Barnett (59:30)

by a property you can. We just recommend people come a couple days early or stay a couple days late and meet with their realtor. In Portugal, for example, you need a year-long lease before you apply for

House Of Peregrine (59:30)

buy a property, can. We just recommend people come a couple days earlier, stay a couple days late and meet with their roater. In Portugal, for example, you need a year-long lease before you apply.

Jen Barnett (59:40)

your visa in the US, so it is helpful. But that's how the trip works. Sometimes people do multiple trips back to back, so they might compare different parts of Spain or they might compare Spain and Portugal. Our goal for next year is to expand them dramatically.

House Of Peregrine (59:54)

next year is to expand them dramatically

with maybe some professional partners in tours so that we can do exploring more places and have a truly just real parts of it, know, the centerpiece of it, the cities that we're going to, the place, all the touristy, if they can handle the lights and the rain and the dust and the dirt because they're a We recommend that people stay in Airbnb's although if we...

Jen Barnett (59:57)

with maybe some professional partners in tours so that we can do, explore more places and control just our parts of it. You know, the seminar piece of it, the cities that we're going to, the lifestyle factors, and they can handle the bus and the rooms and the this and then that because they're better at it. We recommend that people stay in Airbnbs, although if we work with a

professional partner, we may not be able to do that anymore.

But you can always come and stay longer and stay in an apartment like the local.

House Of Peregrine (1:00:30)

Yeah, nice. And so you help people really visualize their life. This is not a vacation necessarily. you know what I really like about that if you're doing it with other people? At least this is what I experienced. That it's really hard to talk to anyone around you because they don't want you to leave, which is a really good thing because they love you.

Jen Barnett (1:00:38)

It is not.

Right.

House Of Peregrine (1:00:51)

But it's really

helpful to have other people to talk to that are in a similar mindset. So you can actually bounce ideas off of them without this emotional charge, right? And so I think that that's really smart because then, and like you said, you're already starting to build your community. When I arrived, there was Amsterdam Mamas. And so I felt like I had a support group right when I landed. And that was really important actually.

Jen Barnett (1:01:11)

Exactly, exactly.

House Of Peregrine (1:01:20)

That and Google Maps. I don't know how people did this before that, but...

Jen Barnett (1:01:23)

I say that all the time. It's not Google. Google Translate is great, but it's Google Maps that makes the biggest difference in being able to do it because you can see all the businesses, see reviews just like you can in the U.S. and you don't have to rely on strangers. That's right. Even here where the streets are all crazy.

House Of Peregrine (1:01:26)

Thank you.

Yeah, there's a time and a place to trust strangers, but having that be all the time is really a big deal. So yeah, cool. So people can get started on your website, Expatsi.com, and we'll link that below with the quiz if they're country shopping, which I don't really like to commoditize countries, but to make light of it in a very serious way, it's really nice. So I always say you're not country shopping like you are shoe shopping, you're country shopping like your house shopping.

Jen Barnett (1:01:52)

Yes.

Yes, that's right.

Yes, you're

looking for fit, right? You're looking for fit. And it's a starting point.

House Of Peregrine (1:02:17)

Yep. Yep.

Yeah, and then they can move right on through with you those six steps. Will you say them one more time? Just short the six steps you said or five steps to moving.

Jen Barnett (1:02:29)

Ideation, planning, exploration, paperwork, logistics, and then settling in.

House Of Peregrine (1:02:37)

Okay, I love that. So they'll help you through those, those, you'll help people through those phases, which I think is really, really helpful. And so people can find you there on your Facebook group of the same name.

Jen Barnett (1:02:51)

Expatsi fam, because we're fam.

House Of Peregrine (1:02:53)

Okay,

and then we'll link to your quiz and all that fun stuff. Is there anything else you want to tell us before we close out?

Jen Barnett (1:03:03)

One last thing, our conference. So we're really excited about it. It's gonna be in San Antonio, Texas Memorial Day weekend. Sometimes people wanna know why we're doing it in Texas. And I will tell you it is because that is where the greatest need is. We talked to the most people in Texas and California, but people in Texas have the most immediate need to move because things are changing there the most rapidly. We're very excited. We're gonna have experts from all over the world.

House Of Peregrine (1:03:21)

have the most immediate need to move because things are changing there most We're very excited. We're going to have experts from all over the world.

And there are going to be people who can literally get your move started right there.

Jen Barnett (1:03:30)

And there are going to be people who can literally get your move started right there

at the conference.

House Of Peregrine (1:03:36)

Wow, so maybe you can't make it to Spain just yet, but you can maybe take a trip to Texas.

Jen Barnett (1:03:43)

That's right. And our Spain experts will be there and they'll give and they'll give a talk that will be similar to what you would experience on the trip.

House Of Peregrine (1:03:47)

that we experienced.

Amazing. All right, we'll also link the details to that below. Well, thank you so much, Jen. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you. It's a weird time. We're recording this in February 2025. And so it's a turbulent time in the world in general, but it's fun to talk to a fellow American living abroad. So thank you so much for coming on. And we will link to everything in the show notes. And again, thank you for joining me today on the House of Peregrine podcast.

Jen Barnett (1:04:14)

Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.