Failing Relationships

House Of Peregrine (01:03)

Hello everyone and welcome back to the House of Peregrine Podcast. Today I'm excited to welcome Astrid Niels. She is a certified relationship coach and through her coaching company, Happy Thinking, she assists men and women to find and keep their ideal partner by embracing and embodying love. Astrid, I am so happy to have you on today. Thank you for coming on and speaking to us.

Astrid Niels (01:26)

Yes, so thank you for having me. I'm really excited and also thank you for making the topic which we are going to discuss like a discussable.

House Of Peregrine (01:35)

Yeah, absolutely. So I want you to introduce yourself to everybody, but you and I actually met at an event with another mutual friend of ours, a perfume smelling event, which was really lovely. And so we got to know each other blindfolded in smelling all these crazy smells first. And then we got to talk about what you were up to. And so tell everybody maybe just a little background about how you got started in the space, and then we can move into the juicy stuff.

Astrid Niels (02:00)

Yes. So I think because we're talking about love and relationship, it's maybe important for the audience to know what my background is a little bit and also my family background and how I exactly rolled into this. So when I was five years old, so I'm born and raised in Belgium, but when I was five years old, my mom, got in a car accident and she was in a wheelchair for about one year.

The same year my sister who was one year older passed away due to a medical mistake and one year later my father committed suicide. my mother, she's not great with emotions like lots of parents and she kind of unconsciously, think emotionally groomed me to thinking that I always was the problem. And on top of that, I have a younger brother who's two years younger and they have a very good relationship and I

I don't actually with my brother and my mother. I just, know, like when it comes to love, like I didn't really have like that safe and secure environment to know what love is. So that was actually a bit like, you know, without realizing the stone which made me look for what does it even mean like to love and be loved actually. And then so how could you...

House Of Peregrine (03:10)

So

that's the start of your journey basically of what you do now.

Astrid Niels (03:17)

So actually, so what was my... So I didn't feel seen by my family. then I... So what I did as a counter reaction was always like, see me, see me, see me. So I wanted to do like great studies because I come from a conservative family. Like, look, I have good grades. I failed, I failed, I failed. And when I was 21, I said like, I'm doing everything wrong because I am so unhappy. I don't understand.

So then I decided to go and study abroad and that's actually when, so when I was 21 I decided for the first time for myself what I wanted to do. I couldn't find myself in my environment where I was born and raised, like with all the opinions of my family, the opinions of my friends, what I should do. And then I said, can't. So I decided to study abroad and then that's when life actually started.

House Of Peregrine (04:11)

Nice. And where were you studying abroad?

Astrid Niels (04:13)

Yeah, so I studied one year in Denmark, then I went to Shanghai, and then I stayed one year in London. And actually in London, I chose HR, which was like the course working with emotional and spiritual intelligence and also transformational diversity leadership. And after I finished my, because it was like the whole study abroad was actually international business management marketing.

And I knew when I finished, like, I want to do something with this. So in the weekends, I studied coaching. And then during the week, I was just working as an executive assistant in London. And then when I had that degree, I started working part time as an executive assistant and part time coaching. And then actually, I was already five and a half years in London. I came back to Belgium.

And if you want to do coachings for big companies like Johnson & Johnson, the banks, you need to have specific certifications. So that's when I went to ICF to get my degree. And then the training school where I did my training, asked me, can we put you in like a cohort in Belgium, like different companies in Belgium to give training and coachings for us. Another two companies also picked me up.

And then that's how I did always like coaching for others. But then I realized there's something very interesting. I learned the concept about having a different model of the world. So for, for example, IT and sales, they have a different model of the world. And then after a while, I decided to have my own company, which is, which was called Leaders of Tomorrow. It's also co-founders, you know, you have one IT, one needs to make it, one needs to sell it. And also,

companies with different family generations, for example, father and son or grandfather and son also have a different model of the world. And then actually my friends told me, Astrid, you know so much about relationships. you need to just tell the world what you know. I was like, no, you know, like I'm the forever single. It was way too vulnerable for me to share my story. But then it took me two years and then I decided, yeah, no, this is for me and I need to do it.

I'm very happy now that I can share what I've learned and see other people grow in love as well.

House Of Peregrine (06:24)

Nice. So I want to back up a little bit because you said something really important and I can see in hindsight how it worked. So when you're in a corporate setting, different departments see they have different models of the world. That is such a lovely way of putting it. And by the world, we mean maybe even the company. So they have a different model of the company that they're both contributing to. And so not only do they have maybe have a different way they move about the world in their personal lives, but what they're collaborating on, which is the company, they have totally different models, how they interact with it, why.

Astrid Niels (06:39)

Yes.

Exactly.

House Of Peregrine (06:54)

all these things. And so that can directly be applied to cultures, so different cultures, but also men and women or two people in a relationship. And so that seems like the connection you made.

Astrid Niels (07:07)

Yes, and what I find very interesting is what you say. So, yeah, for example, just, you know, you have a square and you have a ball and you can put it like in the different silos in the companies or you can put like the just, for example, the demand is the square and the woman is the ball. But then you have like the higher common good, the higher common good is the company or the higher common good is the relationship. And how do these two come together and how do you make it work?

So that's what I try and do. And what I find very interesting in relationships is you have like a man who was attracted to a woman, initially he's actually attracted to her because she's maybe masculine, you know, like she knows what she wants, she's strong. So actually his core traits, he's attracted to her in a woman. Likewise, when you have a woman and she meets a man and he...

and he can listen very well and he's attentive to her, which are more like feminine traits, then it's just, she's attracted to that in him. So that's just really, really interesting.

House Of Peregrine (08:13)

Yeah, it's rich. And when we say masculine and feminine, I think we both understand that masculine and feminine exists in every individual. these, some people use, I know there's a, I can't remember his name, but he uses line and circle instead of masculine and feminine, because often these words have so much baggage or for better or worse. But when we're talking about it in this context, I think we both understand that that exists in every individual and it's not necessarily tied to

Astrid Niels (08:21)

Yes.

House Of Peregrine (08:41)

gender in the sense, like the biological sense.

Astrid Niels (08:44)

No, and I think what you said when we talked a little bit earlier last time is like we sometimes overextend in one area and we talked about, you know, getting yourself into balance. And I think it's both as well with women as with men is like, how do I balance both dynamics which are in me actually? If you're a man and you cannot listen to your wife or your

partner because you find it way too challenging or it triggers you, that's not good. But if as a woman you don't know how to hold yourself, be a strong woman and be there and be a good backbone next to your husband, that's also not good. it's true, you have to balance both dynamics, yin yang, how you want to call it, like black and white.

House Of Peregrine (09:29)

Yeah,

yeah, line circle. Yeah, but they're two different energies that we both, everyone to get to the next level or to if you're having challenges, this might be something to look at within yourself. Some people call it self husbanding or self-wifing. Some people call it developing your masculine, feminine traits. But I think it's lovely. And I think it's

Astrid Niels (09:44)

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (09:49)

It brings things to the next level in relationship in every part of your life. So I want to back up a little bit though. now, so you had all this corporate training and you were seeing these two different worlds and two different, I don't know, do you call it, so I think you said worldview, which I really like, or ways of looking at the world. That is, yeah, model of the world. That is so important because I think a lot of, and right now your specialty in couples and helping people find and keep

Astrid Niels (10:05)

model of the world.

House Of Peregrine (10:16)

the ideal partner for them. This is a big thing in couples counseling that has been over the years. We have to have a shared reality. And that I think has gotten so many people in trouble that

Astrid Niels (10:29)

Yes, I think,

yeah, go ahead.

House Of Peregrine (10:32)

No, and so I would love to, I think what you're bringing is we have two models of the world. They're both valid. They're both real. And they are needing to come together. But that, I find that is a relatively new concept, if that makes sense.

Astrid Niels (10:40)

Yep. Yep.

Yes, and I am so happy you shared that because actually like I think it was last year or the year before like I did you have something called in Belgium which is called like 40 under 40 which is like a leadership program and they actually rejected me and they said you are ahead of your time and I hear just like constantly like you are ahead of your time so it's and actually

For me, it's basic common sense, but maybe basic common sense that we have lost somewhere along the way. Because what I find a little bit different with therapy, for example, is like I'm very action oriented in a sense that I truly believe if you take responsibility for who you are and how you present yourself in the world, you see immediate results and you shift things very quickly.

That's also my approach my coaching practice. I don't talk and talk and talk. I get very exhausted when there is no change. I'm like, come on, try this exercise, do this and see how it changes. And then, yeah, that's maybe different when it comes to therapy or counseling.

House Of Peregrine (12:00)

Yeah, and I think they're both valid. But I think that it's nice to have this very, very important stance that, and responsibility doesn't mean blame, and it doesn't mean blaming, taking responsibility. So these words are really important to get to the heart of them, to pick them apart and get to their real meaning, because I think that it's, at least for me in my personal life, has been very important to assign those words to their proper meaning.

Astrid Niels (12:02)

Yes.

No.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (12:25)

So it sounds technical, but yeah, it's important.

Astrid Niels (12:28)

And what I find very, what I really like, what I really want the listeners to know is that there is nothing wrong with you. so I always compare like when something is not working in your, let's say professional life, you just go and, you know, look or even like technology, you just look what is not working in technology and you twist it and it's working. It's the same actually with your love life, but we have such a...

We have been, I think, maybe raised or cultural-wise, society-wise, that if it's not perfect, that there's something wrong with us. And that's not the case. You just don't know maybe how to look at it, how to approach it, and then your potential, your love potential stays stuck. So it's not something wrong. You have to replace it. is, I have untapped love potential. Then it's such a...

different way of looking at it and then it becomes much more adventurous as well.

House Of Peregrine (13:23)

Yeah, I love that untapped love potential. And that can be individually if you're single or within a current relationship. There can be untapped love potential in a current relationship even. So within yourself and within whatever you're collaborating on, whether it be a project even or within your romantic relationship or even a relationship with a child.

Astrid Niels (13:32)

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Yes, I feel always in life when there's like a blockage, what kind of blockage that might be, know, projects, children, your health, then life is trying to show you something. And life is trying to show you maybe via first showing the rain and then, you know, the sunshine, but that there is something to crack open. And I think

Nowadays we still have that impression, there was a blockage, there's something wrong with me, no, you're about to crack open, so just a little bit longer and then, and it's what we said before, like it's part of the process, it's part of life and we do ourselves a disservice by not embracing that part of life.

House Of Peregrine (14:23)

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, we're going to get to that. But first I want you to tell me, just to give everyone an idea of the kind of clients you're working with right now. Like give us a good summary of the type of things you're working on right now.

Astrid Niels (14:38)

So I basically have two main questions that come in my practice. You have the single person and you have the couples. The singles, they come to me and they say like, I don't understand. said, I'm just not meeting anyone. And then you have the couples and they usually they have long relationship or four or five years and they say, should I stay or should I go?

So that's actually the main questions. And so I was just writing down like, so when it comes to single persons, I had one client, she was 29 and she had never kissed a boy. So she was very like, she was very intelligent. Like I, you know, I do that, have exercises with her, with my clients and then she was so bright in her responses. So then, you know, it's the challenge, okay, I'm going out, I'm going out. And then she had a very like,

how do you say secure upbringing she was very safe so that was one client another client she said she was so funny she was always traveling she had a lot of fun she was you know living her life great job she said I don't have any childhood trauma nothing going on I don't understand like why is this not working so that was another single but then after a while she was meeting someone and then I just observed her reactions when it came to the

relationship and she had really a form of desperation and that she wasn't aware of so that we really had to work on. And then a third client, was also single, she was like I don't understand, I love my job, I'm happy. But she was always putting herself on the second place. So and as a woman you really have to realize and this you know it might be a bit strange to hear but you hold the power.

you hold emotional power, you are the powerhouse of a relationship. And so when you outsource that to a man, then it can go

House Of Peregrine (16:20)

And so those are your singles. Those are your singles. And that's what you're seeing.

Astrid Niels (16:21)

Yeah, and then, yeah, so

when it comes to the couples, was one, she was, she was divorced, she had a new relationship, she had her own company, she had two young children. And she said, I don't understand what's going on with my with my partner at the moment. He doesn't want to like, you know, she told me, for example, they were now moving apart.

But then they wanted to, you know, like move in together. And she said, you know, what if we, for the time being, see each other four times a week? And he couldn't do that for her. And I said, do you really want to be with man who doesn't want to see you more than four times a week? And this just really hit home so that we had to work on that. And then she told him he woke up, he's being more attentive and so on. Then I had another couple and she...

was so funny. Like she was, you know, like she loves to cook. She's like this super excited woman always. But then she, she had like this very vulnerable girl in her, like, and her husband wouldn't hug her. Like he wouldn't be attentive to her. And then she said, I, don't, I don't know. Like I'm just the man of the house. And we had to work on that. And then another

House Of Peregrine (17:32)

What

was working on that? it was something unconscious in each of these cases. That's what I'm catching is each in each of these cases these people couldn't see that they were acting out of their subconscious. And so with the singles I can kind of get it, but with the little girl she was subconsciously acting from this little girl place that then her husband was reacting to.

Astrid Niels (17:37)

Exit. Exit.

Exactly. And I'm really, yes.

Yes, and actually she got then in in it's really funny because she was actually she had lost herself somewhere along the line and then the part that she lost she wanted to go and get from him but and he was rejecting her and that because it's actually he was right because it's not his responsibility it's her responsibility and then we had to start learning to love that part of her and then

Explain to him like these are one of my needs and I it makes me very happy and can you please do that for me? but that's very different and If you tell it like this then he has an option does he want to give it to you or not? While otherwise she was more like demanding it from him, which is not the same But these are just very delicate like intricacies

House Of Peregrine (18:41)

Yep. Yeah.

And they're things that she probably wouldn't have seen before. So finding them is actually essential. So maybe they would have had, and again, these singles, they're having a great life. They're not, but they want love. They want to go to that next level. And in this couple, they probably would have stayed married for the rest of their lives even. But if they want that next level of intimacy, which is what it seems like you're describing this next level of intimacy, or having something in a relationship that they're missing,

Astrid Niels (18:57)

Yeah.

Yep.

exactly.

Yes.

Exactly.

Because what? No. Yes, and what I find very because it's I'm very surprised that you phrase it that way, because nobody ever has phrased it that way. I'm aware like we try and intellectualize love, but you can't. It's something you have to feel and shift on the inside of your body. And that's what makes it sometimes really hard to.

House Of Peregrine (19:12)

Sometimes you can't see the things that are holding you back on your own.

Astrid Niels (19:35)

explain to people what my work is all about because there is something unconscious what they don't feel good about and then they just leave it but that's actually the signal that there is more to get if something we have we have said to ourselves it doesn't feel good and it's okay that it doesn't feel good and that's wrong if it doesn't feel good it means that there's something better for you out there and that's a

House Of Peregrine (20:03)

Yep. And that doesn't

always mean a new person. Because as we know, I mean, it can, of course it can. That like it should always be an option to break up and do all that stuff. That is a given. But off we know when couples break up or when singles keep cycling through people, that the same problems arise and the common denominator is you. And so that those are the things we don't want to find out after that are that. Yeah, yeah. High five.

Astrid Niels (20:06)

Nope.

Yes.

Yeah, I just wanna like high five you. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (20:32)

But that is that's the kind of stuff you're looking for which is like hey It's not always the other person that it's the combination of course But they're bringing out something in you that's always going to be there whether you with this person or the next person or single or partnered

Astrid Niels (20:43)

Yeah.

Yeah. And may

I ask you how? Because that's such a valuable insight. If just the listener would understand this, how did you figure out for yourself that that's how it works?

House Of Peregrine (21:01)

Well, I've been married for 21 years now to the same person. And we have a very intentional goal of staying together. we really, yeah, I mean, we are very dedicated to each other. But we're very, very driven, both of us. And so it really, we see it as a investment and project into our lives, not because we don't think we could be happy with other people.

Astrid Niels (21:04)

Yeah.

you

House Of Peregrine (21:29)

because we know we could. So it's really been an act of devotion to make sure that we're reaching our fullest potential with each other and hoping that means that we can do every stage of relationship and life together. But that's taken a, I mean, it really is an act of devotion. The other thing is, and I think maybe you're on the scale, I don't know if you've heard this, there's a gifted scale for noticing these things. And so I don't know if you've, I have a feeling if you haven't, you should check it out.

Astrid Niels (21:41)

Yeah.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (21:55)

There's a kind of gifted we know about that's like academically gifted or sports, they're really good at sports, but there's more levels. And I'll reference the work in the show notes, but there's a whole bunch, there's a group, it's an international group, and I wish I could remember the name. Intergifted, I think is what the name is. And they go over the other kinds of giftedness. And I've realized in the last few years that I'm gifted in this part. I can see systems, I can see how they're not working. That doesn't mean I can identify it.

myself. That's where I always have coaches and therapists that help me. I'm like, I'm stuck. I can't see. There's a shadow. There's a problem. So that's how I've learned is through really devotion to my own romantic life, being really high potential.

Astrid Niels (22:33)

Yeah.

I think, yeah, yeah,

I think act of devotion, think that's such a beautiful word because we are so, we have lost and that's in the end what it's about. And then secondly, what you said to normalize that when you can't see something to go and get help, but it sounds like it's a weakness, but I think it's strength to surround yourself with business coaches, with...

therapist with hormone coaches, food coaches, whatever, exactly. And what you said, psychedelics, like everything. It's...

House Of Peregrine (23:03)

somatic coaches, yep.

Yeah. And everyone

knows on this podcast that I've definitely been in the cutting edge of psychedelic work in relationships. And that helps. It's not necessary, but for me, it's been part of my journey. And so what I think you're doing is actually, in a way, what you can get to psychedelics as well. So somatics, psychedelics, exercises, it really is about the things that you cannot see on your own. You're not an expert.

again, that goes to if you want this potential, if you want this next level of potential. And for me, it's a devotion to myself first. I want to have a love story. And that whether that's with and this is not for anything but my partner, but I made a promise to myself very young that I would not be married unless I was having a great love story and that it comes through today. I'm 42. Like I made that promise to myself when I was six, you know, like so I think it's

For me, it's one of my innovations in life. That's the very long answer to your question. But I really want to share it. Yeah.

Astrid Niels (24:07)

Yes, but I think it's just, yeah, but

I'm just really happy to have someone else tell that as well and not only me, because I think if people could look at it that way, their life would expand love-wise like one, two, three.

House Of Peregrine (24:15)

Yeah.

Yep,

yep, love wise, every way actually, every relationship improves if you do this work. And I'm on it for life, like it never ends. it's, anyway, so, that's, but these unseen things and these, I think in couples therapy often if it's just talking and it's just, there's a place for it, it's super helpful to get you unstuck in certain ways, but without the, maybe recognition.

that there are darker energies or things that you don't see. Sometimes people call them shadows, sometimes people call them blocks, sometimes people call them unexamined parts. There's so much language for it, but what we're really doing is identifying the seen and the unseen, right? So we're taking two people, cultures, in accompanying departments, realizing they have a unique blueprint of the world. I keep forgetting how you put it, it was so good.

Astrid Niels (25:14)

Model of

the world, model of the world, yeah.

House Of Peregrine (25:16)

unique

model of the world. And then how do they collaborate together in the most, like generative way they can for both people. And that that's revolutionary. It turns out.

Astrid Niels (25:26)

Yes, I'm very happy you say that because I've experienced that as well. And I think it comes back to, you know, like the common goal, like the devotion is the relationship first and foremost for yourself and then together with other people and for the company or the relationship. And what I've come to realize, if something, you know, you maybe say, OK, I need to leave or if something is

is the best decision for you. Maybe it means like having a difficult conversation, leaving the company, whatever in the relationship. It's also immediately the best thing for the other person. So we sometimes think, my God, this person, I have to have a challenging conversation. Sometimes the other person is he or she needs to hear that.

And then if something feels good for you, it's automatically going to be the best decision for the other person as well.

House Of Peregrine (26:22)

they agree, yeah, if they also feel good.

Astrid Niels (26:24)

Well, actually also sometimes when they don't feel good, like in the long run, maybe not immediately, but they will see that that was the best thing to do for both parties.

House Of Peregrine (26:36)

Yeah, and that happens all the time in relationships and jobs, right? You see the best thing that ever happened to you is being fired sometimes, you know, or firing someone you really didn't want to, or sometimes the best thing is ending a relationship and it's the best thing that happened to you, whether you were the one doing it or the one that had it done.

Astrid Niels (26:39)

Yes, I'm job.

Yes.

Yeah.

But what I really see when it comes to couples who have been married, for example, for 20 years and they, think I told you previously, like there has been like a betrayal, like he betrayed her for two years. Another couple, he also betrayed her for a couple of months and another couple, he also, and then there was another couple, she and then, what I came to realize with all of the four couples in the end, they don't want to leave the relationship.

that the other person or the betrayal is showing actually is bringing to light that there is something lacking in the person. It has never ever anything to do with the other person. Obviously, I don't agree that going to another person because you are lacking within yourself something that that's something good because it's like you said previously, so person A

doesn't feel good in the relationship anymore. He thinks that going to another person will solve this void within them, which then he realizes that it's not. And then the real work can happen.

House Of Peregrine (27:57)

Yeah. And this is often, I mean, we're citing, we're stepping onto the work of Esther Perel, where she's been working for decades about this, her work was finding that sometimes that's the beginning of a new phase of a relationship. And not always, and it's not right, but it is true.

Astrid Niels (28:11)

Yeah, exactly. And then I think.

Yeah, it's true. And I usually see when you hit like a block or a different phase in the relationship, it's like, it's not it to me, it's not a block. It's not nice usually, but it's an invitation to start loving on a deeper level. That's what it is to me. Yeah, always. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

House Of Peregrine (28:34)

Yeah, it's a death portal. It's a death portal. And

you are hatching a new relationship or a new kind of relationship. And sometimes one person's ready for that and the other is not. so that those differing layers of intimacy are really that's I mean, this is the stuff poets write about through the centuries, right? Like, this is why you can talk, write sonnets and sonnets and sonnets.

Astrid Niels (28:41)

Yeah.

Yes.

House Of Peregrine (28:57)

And people continue to make love stories and it's really telling the story over and over again. And so when we can go, I mean, we can go so many directions with this, but the thing I want people to know is that this is normal. Yeah. And some people don't ever go to these levels of intimacy. They stay more surface or what I like to call or I've heard called, role mates.

Astrid Niels (29:11)

Yes. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (29:22)

in a marriage or like you said, forever single. This is a fine way of living. This is totally normal. This is in fact celebrated in fact in our culture in some ways. And so this is information for people who really are either in a transition that they've been dragged into somehow through a portrayal or their partner wants to go deeper or they're running into blocks. So it really is almost an honor to have these experiences in my opinion.

Astrid Niels (29:27)

Yeah.

Yes, and it's really interesting that you say that because the people who are more like on a role-mate or more like surface although they might not always admit it and it might be too powerful for them at this stage to look at it, they remain with a certain void, but they are very good at not listening to the void or not listening to that little voice within side you. But deep down we are

You know, are human beings having a... No, we are spiritual beings having a human experience. And the goal of life is to expand, expand, expand the soul actually. So what you're doing if you stay in relationships which are more like brother-sister relationships, you are blocking your expansion and blocking your expansion will never feel good. And it will, maybe not in this life, maybe in another life, will keep up with you. But that's true, it's not...

for everybody to... I'm always curious to find out what is a good way to have people know that it's more like, I always say you have to look at it when you go on a rollercoaster. It's, you know, it's exciting and then you go down and then it's exciting again and that's the same with relationships. And I think my biggest, maybe my biggest handicap or my biggest wish for other people to...

to show them is that it always gets better. It can never get, you can't, you know, like when you have like a spiritual goal, can't go, love never becomes less, it always becomes more.

House Of Peregrine (31:20)

Yeah, you have to have faith in that though. You really do. that's, again, to quote Esther Perel, some people have four or five great relationships in their life. you're odd or lucky, it's to the same person, right? And so it's easier to start over to see that with a new relationship. It's harder to see it within the same relationship with the same person. And I think that that's unfortunate, but it's true. so longevity is not the measure.

for a relationship success. It's actually the amount of nutrients, just like food. Yeah. I want to give this on a tangible level and then we can move into maybe some of the darkness stuff we were talking about earlier, because we're both kind of nerds in this area. So on a tangible level, I can imagine, like, there's volumes written about betrayals being the catalyst for

Astrid Niels (31:50)

Yes.

House Of Peregrine (32:10)

relationship to end but we all know it's ended way before that or it's in trouble way before that. And so when people come to you and also singles, like there's a crisis point, right? You're like, I want a relationship. I'm not getting a relationship or I have to settle for relationships that aren't good for me. That seems and then my partner betrayed me somehow. can't, this is untenable. These two things are untenable. So walk me through like what that looks like in your coaching practice, tangibly, just quickly.

Astrid Niels (32:37)

So for example, I had a client, so he actually betrayed her for a couple of months. So they come in the coaching practice together then he tells me his first relationship was someone really excited and then a lot of how do you say, excitement ecstasy. And then that went down and then he meets her. They have a relationship for, they have children, three children relationship for 20 years.

And then he tells me actually during the sessions, actually I should have never married with her because there was not like this infatuation from the beginning. But infatuation is not love, but he couldn't see that at the time. So okay, he gets an affair. then I also work with the lady and I tell her like, how does it feel? know, like you have to constantly wait. Is he going back to her? Is he choosing you? Like...

What is it? And she tells me it's just breaking me in like 20,000 pieces. And I said, you need, and that's what I said, that's your guideline. You cannot tolerate that someone breaks you in 20,000 pieces whatsoever, never with family, with no one. Okay, so what happens? Then she said, okay, well, he needs to leave then. So he leaves, he gets an apartment with his mistress.

And after not joking one week, he realizes he has made the biggest mistake of his life. So he wants to come back to her. And then I said, okay, now he wants to come back to you. Like, what, how do you feel about it? Well, she said, I'm actually very happy during the process. I learned what it means to choose for myself first. And what you said at the beginning as well, like you have to choose for yourself first. And now from this choosing myself first.

he can enter. But not like I have forgotten everything, but just like very slowly he's allowed to come back into my life. And then she realizes that she also had like, she also was responsible for what had happened because she lost herself in the process. And you can never lose yourself in the process. You're first devoted to yourself and then you can be devoted to someone else.

House Of Peregrine (34:47)

Yeah. And I can hear my audience and myself included going, why can't they, why do men, it seems like in a men and women relationship, why do you have to leave to get them to see?

Astrid Niels (34:59)

Yeah, so

that's a very fair question. it's what I see, I don't have like why it happens, but what I do know is that the timeline of a man works completely different than the timeline of a woman. So that's one thing. What I mean by that is, so the other couple now who are wanting to move together, look, so he says, okay, I want to move together. And then she asks when, 2025, he says.

House Of Peregrine (35:02)

Yeah.

Astrid Niels (35:28)

And then she's like, 2025, like, what does that even mean? So now also with her, said, how does it feel for you when you, when he says 2025? Well, I don't know, because it makes me restless. I don't know. It's like December, you know, July. And I said, what did you want as a woman? Well, she said, you know, I want July. So now she's going to communicate with that. So for him, like, and also for example, maybe this is more so when you have

someone, let's say it has been two weeks ago with a man, he might say, I had him on the phone like just yesterday. So the timeline of a man works completely different. That's one. And the reason behind it might be that commitment for a man, it's very big thing. and when we, it might be a little bit hard to grasp, but when you enter another layer,

into relationship, have to commit on another layer first within yourself and then in the relationship. So that might be to understand dynamics.

House Of Peregrine (36:24)

Yep.

And we're speaking at such an abstract level. But what you're saying is it's something that we don't want to accept always, but it's not informed by what we want. It's informed in the cultural overlays we have, in the DNA of us. There are stories. this is what I've I mean, I'm a woman who did a TED talk about

blockchain and how it can help women have economic freedom like in a relationship. And so these are not things that are convenient to realize. You think the world works differently, but we can't deny that we are different and not everyone's the same, not all men are the same, not all women the same. We do have cultural stories and genetic stories that we are contending with or they're in our bodies and sometimes we don't.

understand them. And so if you can understand them, whether you like them or not, it can bring more peace and understanding. And so I think it's really triggering, at least it has been in the past for me, to hear things like men are on a different timeline. And that's, that's, can be a very triggering thing to hear, like, well, why do I have to be on his timeline? Like, I've always, women have been

Astrid Niels (37:20)

Yeah.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (37:42)

Women have been subjugated for centuries. why do we, I'm sick of being on his timeline, which we're not, that's not what we're saying. So I would just like to make that clear. It is really acknowledging and validating that you have two different models of the world and yours is just as valid as his, and you have to communicate that and stick to it.

Astrid Niels (37:56)

Yeah.

Yeah, that's what we've said earlier. Then you are like, okay, what am I, you you're devoted to yourself and then you're devoted to the relationship. And then I think it's how far can you go until you become resentful? What I mean is you start giving, you give someone two weeks, two weeks, but you can see after four weeks, then I start expecting from you.

House Of Peregrine (38:09)

Yeah. Yep.

Astrid Niels (38:28)

And when you start expecting from another person, you are giving too much.

House Of Peregrine (38:32)

Yeah. And this goes to something that I know you have experienced yourself, which is what I call them unconscious or un like you're making a contract with someone that they're not signing and expecting something in return. And so I think this is something that often men and women do this. People do it all the time. But realizing you're doing it can really change how you spend your energy. So explain it. It has a name. I I've heard it called many things, but what how do you conceptualize this idea?

Astrid Niels (38:59)

so that's a very interesting one. Why is that interesting? Because we can only talk about it, but then the works comes to you because you have to feel it. You have to feel where, yes, it's an experience where, you know, like for example, when it comes to the move, other someone else could have said, okay, I can tell.

House Of Peregrine (39:10)

and see, yeah, and experience it. Yeah.

Astrid Niels (39:21)

You know, it has to happen for me in March because if it's later than March, I feel this not correct for me. And someone can say it has to happen for me in September because before that or after that doesn't feel good to me. So that's up to the person itself to feel it. And I think, yeah, so.

House Of Peregrine (39:38)

But if you,

for instance, say, I'm gonna compromise and do it in December like you want, but then I expect you to pay for more of the move then, since I'm doing it, and you don't communicate any of this, these are the unconscious or, yeah, give to get. Yeah.

Astrid Niels (39:49)

Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I

think that's such an interesting, because we do it, we tend to do it quite often, like also in jobs, like, okay, I will finish this paper and then she or he will be super excited I finish it and then the paper, someone just grabs it and then you don't get recognition. So I think then we are not talking about love anymore. We are talking about a transactional relationship.

And that's what we're trying to avoid. We want to have a heartfelt, transactional relationship.

House Of Peregrine (40:25)

Yeah, but that can

be a big one in everywhere. So when I learned that about myself and others, it was a game changer. I started being much more aware of myself and what I was bringing into my life. And again, not blaming myself or the other person. It really is about awareness. And so that it's super important.

Astrid Niels (40:35)

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think you also have to, so what I find very interesting, I think I heard Brene Brown say that she said like my husband and now what we do is like, for example, we come home and we say like, if your cup is, you know, full 100 % and it's like not full at 0%, okay, I'm a solid 20 or I'm a solid 30 or I'm a solid 80 today.

And then as a couple, you come together. And what do you do? think it's most challenging when one person is five and the other person is just 10. So then you, and then you have to go and talk to each other and say, look, I'm a five, I'm a 10. How do we go into manage this? Because we're, we're both really empty. yeah.

House Of Peregrine (41:23)

Yeah, yeah. These

are basic, really good things. So I want to bring this to international couples really quickly because I know you have experience here. And so every relationship work, every relationship you have in your life is going through these cycles of depth and so when you move abroad, in my opinion, and I want to hear your opinion on this, it speeds things up or it can. Yeah. Why is that? Like, tell me about that when you're working with

Astrid Niels (41:30)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Why is that?

House Of Peregrine (41:49)

either two people from two different cultures, because men and women are kind of different cultures to start with, but then add layers to that. You're from two different countries. You're from the same country, but you're in another country. It really put us in accelerant on these things, I think.

Astrid Niels (42:03)

I think when you are put in another, no, basically when your comfort is taking away, your comfort of you know everyone, you have a support system, you can call your mom, your family, when everything of that is taken away, you're faced with like, whoa, how do I interact with these type of cultures? And you are forced to have to...

unconsciously you are constantly having mirrors because when you are in another country, so for example, I lived in Shanghai for a while, like people, you know, like they spit like in Belgium, we don't spit when we don't like something and for there it's completely normal. So you are really what you are taking for granted. It's maybe not something you take for granted and it's the same. And then you start realizing about other stuff about yourself is the same when you have different religions, for example, when you

Jewish and you are like Christian, how does that merge? Like how does it work? there's just like, yeah, like everything you thought was normal, the ideas, the cultures, societal norms suddenly are like, maybe that's not normal. And then you go into self-reflection and I think that self-reflection speeds up the process.

House Of Peregrine (43:13)

Well, you go into self-reflection or you can go into, which I've seen in myself and others, this isn't right. This isn't how it's done. And you become the arbiter of what is proper and right standing in another country. And people get in lot of trouble and in relationships as well, right? You're the arbiter. You become the arbiter. Unless you self-reflect, you suddenly become the arbiter of what is right and wrong. And that is...

Astrid Niels (43:26)

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's

my coach once asked me, Astrid, who decides what is right or wrong? Who decides that? And until this day, like I'm like, yeah, I can see now what she means. But at the time I was like, what? Like hitting someone like it's not OK, you know.

House Of Peregrine (43:57)

Yeah, yeah, and who decides? And so this is where I'd love to, so when in my experience, so getting to when you start uncovering these layers, whether it's through an international move, which I feel like I've been through all stages of this. So when my partner and I are from the same culture, more or less, but when we moved here, I started pulling apart, or I guess I always say there's a cult in every culture. And so when you're outside of your culture, you start to see

again, cult is a strong word. use it kind of in a funny way, but you see that what right and wrong really is cultural, right? And so, and you're kind of following it. You're kind of going, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't like that. don't like whatever, whatever your cult culture you're in. So I'm from the US, so it's either like Trump or no Trump, right? Like that's a cult in my opinion. Like you say, yeah, I don't like him or I do like him. And then you go on your merry way and you feel comfortable, right?

Astrid Niels (44:28)

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (44:52)

But when you're outside of your culture, you start doing that. You are confronted, like you said, with mirrors. It's a great way. You're constantly... So you can either... And so I started growing in a different way than my partner did. And he was still in a different... He was on a different journey. And so we had to find out that we were on a different journey in our international journeys. And then we had to validate it. We had to be like, hey, your journey is different.

Astrid Niels (44:52)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (45:14)

And so then we were on a journey together of do we stay here? Do we go? And every year we go through this. Do we stay here? Do we go to another country or go back home? And we reevaluate. So that's being really conscious about it. But if you move here and you're having two different experiences in a relationship, that comes with challenges and that speeds things up. So affairs happen a lot. There's a high incidence of people who were living abroad getting divorced. Like there's a very, there's super high chance that if you move abroad,

your relationship will go through a hard time. And so I want to, I want you just to talk in depth about that for a second, about what we can do, what it looks like, all that stuff.

Astrid Niels (45:46)

Yes.

I think

it all starts with awareness. being conscious that you might... Well, if you go abroad for job, you still might have the same company, you still might have the same structure, but you need to be aware that when it comes to a personal relationship, that structure, your house, your habit is all going to fall apart. And you don't have that backbone because you need to become a new backbone while...

when it comes to the company, have the company as a backbone, you have the rules, regulations, whatsoever. You don't have that backbone. So you need to be aware that you need to become a new and upgraded backbone. And then the question is, do you want to put effort in that? Do you want to do that? Do you want to take on the challenge or do you don't want to take on that challenge? And I think people the same.

It's the same as what we've discussed before, only that it's another layer. It's another layer that you're completely out of your comfort zone, but that block or that what looks like a block, it's also an opportunity for growth, to grow in love. And do you want to take on that opportunity or just want to let it pass you

House Of Peregrine (47:06)

Yeah. And sometimes you don't have a choice because it really does. It takes away the choice of it. From my experience, it takes any cracks or any maybe like anything that was kind of a little thing in your relationship and it makes it much bigger. You cannot ignore it anymore. And that's quite an adventure. Like it's quite an adventure. It leads to incredible growth. But if you're not aware with

Astrid Niels (47:22)

Yeah. Yeah.

Now you cannot ignore it, no.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (47:35)

aware of it is just a wild ride. So, yeah.

Astrid Niels (47:37)

And I think it's

great opportunity. it's, like if you, I mean at the beginning it can look like an adventure, yes I agree. But if you look afterwards, don't you think it was one of the greatest opportunities of your life maybe?

House Of Peregrine (47:52)

Yeah, it's a new level of education. And so that's why I'm hoping to bring this home in a tangible way for people, because it is a beautiful thing to let. I mean, there's a saying, Like, men get married hoping women don't change, or women get married hoping men don't change, and men get married hoping women never change. And I hate that saying. I think it's really destructive. But I don't know what planet you live on, but

planet Earth, like everything's always changing and that includes relationships. And so how you do that, it's like going to university or something, like you really have to embrace it. But I want people to know it's normal.

Astrid Niels (48:24)

Yeah. And if you want

to make it tangible, always ask my clients to be like, okay, if you want, let's say, describe me the type of man you want, like characteristic wise. And then I said, what type of woman is that man going to fall in love with? I do it even if couples. And then they're like, okay, maybe I have some things I need to work on, but that's a great...

question to also ask when you have moved abroad like okay so who is this person going to be here and you know like what is this person wants or need from from their partner who also moved with them.

House Of Peregrine (49:07)

Yep. And I see this come up especially when one, when they've changed roles. So if one is coming for the other's job and they suddenly take on, they can't work for some reason and they've been both working. And one of them suddenly takes on the household and they've completely, that's a journey on its own. And so they completely change into a person maybe that the other person doesn't, isn't interested in anymore.

but they didn't do that consciously. so, you know, there's multiple ways out of that, including coming to see you, but it is in a reality.

Astrid Niels (49:37)

And I think one way to what I have couples do sometimes is they have like, it sounds maybe a little bit corny, but like they have a weekly meeting, they have a monthly meeting and they have a quarterly meeting. Just that, you know, they're all looking in the right directions. And when you talk about things and you make them talkable and discussable and there is no resentment and everybody feels good,

then it's easier, like don't shove it under the carpet. Don't do it. That's not good.

House Of Peregrine (50:07)

Yeah, you've got to take the scary things away and make them discussable. Yeah, that makes total sense. And so when you see people, what are you interested in right now? We spoke briefly about this. So you can get people back on track. You can get people back on track with their relationship. Do I stay or do I go gets answered one way or another? Maybe that's the goal with you.

Astrid Niels (50:11)

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (50:29)

and then they move forward and then inevitably something else comes up. But what are you seeing right now that you're like, it's really interesting you.

Astrid Niels (50:38)

So what I said earlier is like, I'm very interested now in the dynamics or good and bad. So I'm a little bit into Kabbalah just to learn like, you know, when I have like, so what I always say, someone who has a lot of light in them or a lot of love, they actually shine a light on the darker aspects of the other person. So, which means that,

I'm very interested in now how actually love works. And what I mean by that is without experiencing all of these darker emotions, and that doesn't mean that you have to stay longer in the darker emotions than necessary, but also not shorten them than necessary and just let them be. And I'm in that process of why is that? Like, how come is that? And I'm just...

really keen in this moment if I feel empty on the inside I have like a I like a reflection now okay Astrid you feel empty on the inside you need to take a step back you you need to it's your responsibility to replenish that hole that void and then you go out again it's not what yeah yeah what what can I bring to the relationship instead of what or in life in general instead of what

House Of Peregrine (51:48)

It's a really powerful signal. That's a really powerful signal.

Astrid Niels (51:58)

can I take?

House Of Peregrine (51:59)

or what's wrong.

Astrid Niels (52:01)

Yeah, exactly. There is nothing wrong. It's just you have a void. And if you learn how to fill that void within yourself without anyone else, you have mastered life, I think.

House Of Peregrine (52:12)

Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes you need to collaborate on something, right? Like this isn't going well for me, but from a place of you knowing, self-knowing. And that can't come, like you said, without knowing the darker or the less convenient. So we're talking about anger. We're talking about sadness. We're talking about maybe stories that are in our body that we don't like. Men have this a lot where they're like,

Astrid Niels (52:29)

Sadness

House Of Peregrine (52:36)

I realized I do have these stories about women that I'm acting unconsciously out of. Women have this with men, right? They're afraid of them. They don't realize they're afraid of them. And so these are all, it's not just darker emotions, but it could be darker stories. It could be unconscious beliefs. And so how does Kabbalah play into this?

Astrid Niels (52:53)

Well, how so I think what was for me very interesting is that Kabbalah says somewhere like, unless your energy is good, don't go out of the house. Just make sure you collect yourself and then go. And then I came to realize if you apply that principle to relationships, you are not going to ask from your partner, I feel I need a hugger. You always realize that

you are giving something instead of taking. So I, when I was very younger, I was really, I had like this, I was entitled in a sense that when I was feeling bad, I was like, my partner needs to give me a hug. My partner needs to listen to me. No, nobody owes you anything, darling. Never until you die, nobody owes you anything. So that's just, it makes the relationship so much lighter. You

you know, if partner A does that and partner B does that, then the relationship is just always like, it's just flowing and it's light. I'm not saying everything is just light, but it's what Esther Perel also says, you know, we are expecting from a partner. He's a great sex partner. He's our therapist. He's our best friend. He's a dad. He does also have, it's just way too much for one person. So I think getting a coach and

doing the work you need to do with someone who's objective, someone else, and then you can enjoy your relationship much more.

House Of Peregrine (54:22)

Yeah, and I actually hate the word objective in this context. I'm sorry to say, but because of what it means for women, honestly, because it sometimes assumes that women aren't being objective, but they are being objective about their own experience. What I love to hear is that you're a mirror for what's potentially going on because for many years, and this is just my experience, my baggage, I would have therapists say, well, I'm objective and you are.

expecting too much. And I would say, not fight that, but I took it on. And then it held our relationship back for a really long time to think that the therapist or the coach was the objective one in the room, because they come with their own. And I'm sorry to bring this up with you, but so that's, I think it's really important that we, it's such an important person to have that can mirror back to you be like, is this what you mean? Is this what you want?

Astrid Niels (55:01)

Yeah. No, no, no, it's okay.

House Of Peregrine (55:14)

But they are not objective. have their own stories. They have their own baggage. They have their own whatever. So you still have to be, again, the expert at yourself and your own advocate. And I think that that, again, like you can use that word. I'm not trying to take it away from you, but that.

Astrid Niels (55:23)

Exactly.

No, but I think I'm very happy

because what sometimes clients do is like they come to me and they're like, you're the expert and you know everything. No, I'm felicitating this process. But what I said previous, you need to feel, where is your boundary? You, you, you, you need to feel it. And I also don't want that responsibility as a coach or as an expert or as whatever therapist. I don't want it.

House Of Peregrine (55:53)

Yeah. And do you think this is where and do you ever have this? think for me at least, that's where it's really that's where it comes in when you need to find those boundaries of having maybe a therapist or a somatic coach or where you're where you're up leveling in your relationship. You have to up level and find your own edges ever over and over and over again. And so for me, it's been a really powerful combination of always having someone that's just for me, that's coaching me in business or personal. And and then

Astrid Niels (56:17)

Yeah, yeah, I'm just

not-

House Of Peregrine (56:21)

The relationship has its own coach. this is, again, we're coming from a very privileged point of view. Before I had coaches, before I thought of that, I was reading books like crazy. So I call them like my podcast coaches. Like I would just listen to podcasts about it because I didn't have the resources or maybe even the knowing that it was necessary. And so people can do that as well.

Astrid Niels (56:35)

Yeah.

No.

Yeah. And I also think like when I was living in London, like I didn't have the resources as well. Like I was listening to podcasts. I was reading secondhand books. Like, but what I do think there's always a way within your environment. Everybody has a way. Like I don't believe that you, can't like, because I also believe that you chose a certain path maybe. And that in that environment, those lessons are meant for you to grow.

you know, to expand. So I think there's always opportunities for you to learn and to grow.

House Of Peregrine (57:16)

Yeah. And again, like hiring a coach is one way. And it's a very direct way. if someone were to hire you, have full, full like you are very skilled and a wise person. So I'm really, really happy you could go on this crazy journey. Like we've just talked about everything. I hope everyone could follow along because you are very talented and I can tell that you've done a lot of work in this area and are helping people find a way in these.

harder to reach places, I would say. They're harder to use our mind for.

Astrid Niels (57:48)

Yeah, I think I just want people to know that it's just untapped potential in what area, finance, health, love, you just, it's untapped and there's nothing wrong with you. That's the main thing I want to give the audience today. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (58:04)

Me too. Normalize this journey. It's going deeper, going further and your own journey. Astrid, it's been a pleasure. I'm going to be mindful of your time and wrap it up, but we could talk about this for hours. Please tell people how they can reach you if they want to work with you or no more.

Astrid Niels (58:10)

Yeah.

Yeah.

So they can follow me on, so my website is happythinking.me, so from mother and E from Eric. They can find me on Instagram as well, happythinking.me or on LinkedIn, Astrid Niels. And they can just send me a message and we will get talking.

House Of Peregrine (58:38)

and you help people from around the world. this is your coach.

Astrid Niels (58:40)

Yeah, I do. have an international

clientele.

House Of Peregrine (58:44)

Okay, cool. All right, we'll put that below and thank you so much for joining us. Thank you everyone for following Please feel free to like and subscribe to our channel and find Astrid if you would like to know more about her practice. Thanks Astrid.

Astrid Niels (58:57)

Yeah, thank you so

much, Mickelle. Thank you so much.