House Of Peregrine (01:03)
Hello everyone and welcome back to the House of Peregrine podcast. Today I'm thrilled to be joined by Brooklyn Brownstone, the founder and CEO of the Labour Department, a community dedicated to supporting parents and parents to be in navigating that transition to becoming a parent. Brooklyn has a wealth of experience as a senior marketing professional, having worked across industries like fashion, travel and consumer goods with a global perspective spanning Europe,

Canada and the United States. With over a decade in marketing, she's passionate about crafting seamless consumer journeys, building engaged brand communities, and helping business connect meaningfully with their audiences. Now she's channeling that expertise into empowering parents to thrive. Today we'll dive into her journey, the inspiration between the Labour Department and what's next for this revolutionary community.

House Of Peregrine (01:51)
Thank you so much for coming on Brooklyn. I'm such a huge fan of what you're up to.

Brooklyn Brownstone (01:55)
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here.

House Of Peregrine (01:58)
Awesome. I want to dive right into so many things with you, but I want to start first with your personal story. You are, yeah, where did you grow up and what brought you here?

Brooklyn Brownstone (02:07)
Yeah.

Cool. So I grew up in Toronto, Canada, but I've lived in a few other cities along the way. I went to university in Halifax. I lived in New York for a little bit. And about 10 years ago, I met my partner and we moved to the Netherlands shortly after meeting. He's Dutch and he wanted to come home.

So yeah, we decided to give Amsterdam a go and that was eight years ago. So it's been, it's definitely become my home. I'd like to say to people that, yeah, I've spent, you know, I don't really know how to adult anywhere else. Like I've been an adult here only. So yeah, we got married here, had our son here, bought a house here. I started my business here. Amsterdam is really our home now.

House Of Peregrine (02:57)
That's amazing. So you came for love and you stayed for the adulting.

Brooklyn Brownstone (02:57)
Yeah.

I stayed for, yeah, I mean, I asked myself why I stayed a lot. Some days more than others. I think, yeah, I've stayed for the quality of life. I've stayed for how beautiful the city is. I've stayed for our beautiful home, our great community, the sun, a little bit of the rain. Yeah, it's just, it's a really great place to...

be a parent, it's a really great place to live and work. I don't know if it's a great place for small business, but it's where I am, so yeah.

House Of Peregrine (03:34)
Yeah, that makes sense. don't know if you're familiar with my story, but I've also been here eight years, but I have an American partner. So we're both American and we just came for a year and now it's suddenly been almost nine, I think. But it's for the reasons you said it's for, always say it's a really gentle place to adults in some ways as a parent.

Brooklyn Brownstone (03:38)
cool.

Yeah, right.

Classic.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah. You know, I just think the expectations are a little bit lower and not in a bad way, more like, you know, there's not a race to interview for kindergarten. There's not this expectation of working until 10 o'clock every night. Like, it's just the pace of life is really enjoyable.

House Of Peregrine (04:12)
Yeah, totally agree. Totally agree. We both agree. So I came when I had a five-year-old, a three-year-old, and a 18-month-old. so when I came, my lifeline was Amsterdam Mamas, which is a lot of us, right? But when I became a parent in the US, no one really like,

Brooklyn Brownstone (04:13)
Yeah.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (04:31)
pulls you aside and gives you a class. Like that doesn't happen. And you're kind of figuring out everything for yourself and looking around being like, is everyone else finding this difficult? And so when I saw the Labour Department come up whenever I found you a year or two ago, it was like, yes, this makes sense. This is sanity right here. This is what sanity looks like. Especially as an international parent, it became another layer on top of that parenting nonsense, like insanity.

Brooklyn Brownstone (04:34)
No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (04:58)
And so tell me when you moved here with your partner eight years ago, you weren't a parent yet.

Brooklyn Brownstone (05:03)
No, I wasn't a parent yet. When I moved here, was a corporate person working in marketing. And then I became pregnant and it was just like a total slap in the face. I really had this different expectation for how it would look and feel for me. And pregnancy was just really difficult. I had a lot of physical issues. I was really sick.

and it took a big, big toll on my mental health. and I just felt really lonely and lost. And, know, more than that, I just felt like, wow, I didn't know it could look like this. And I think that really is what inspired the labor department and our sort of main program, craft to parent, just that knowledge is power and knowing what things can look like, whether it's breastfeeding or baby sleep or.

your relationship, you know, just being aware of how that can change and morph and the experience that you might have, just sort of seeing a preview can make such a difference on how you actually walk through it. So yeah, when I, I think when my son was one, I kind of started curating all the things that I felt like were creating more realistic portrayals of what that moment looks like, what that experience is looking like. And I started a newsletter.

with that information. And then from there, I did like a pop-up and then I opened a space and I used that time and that space to really dig into that a little bit more. And basically, like I asked every single new parent I could, what is it that you wish you had known? What is it that no one told you? What do you feel like you were really poorly set up for? And across the board, what I heard was, well, I thought the way you prepare for becoming a parent was,

by preparing for birth. But no one told me that, you know, birth would be nine hours, but that I would like really struggle with breastfeeding for a year, or that, you know, I would end up having a emergency C-section and all my hypno birthing would go out the window and, you know, the postpartum recovery would be really challenging. So basically I took all that information

that people generously shared with me and through that created Prep to Parent, which is either a four week or a weekend program designed for English speaking couples that really prepares you for everything that's going to happen next. So we're essentially trying to redefine how parents walk through the transition from adult to adult and parent. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (07:42)
Yeah.

And on that, you say English speaking parents, which I think in the context of international community in Amsterdam, that usually means people from around the world.

Brooklyn Brownstone (07:50)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's like a mix, right? It's people from around the world, you know, of like, I would say a good 30 % of our participants are Dutch, but they have English speaking partners. So they have an ex-pat partner an international partner.

House Of Peregrine (08:09)
question is, is part of this also preparing them for giving birth outside of their own language and culture?

Brooklyn Brownstone (08:16)
It's not just giving birth outside of their own language and culture, it's raising a baby outside of their own language and culture and adjusting to the cultural norms here and learning how to like raise a hand when you don't feel certain of what's happening around you, which is quite often in parenthood.

House Of Peregrine (08:33)
in parenthood and then add the extra layer of being outside of your own culture. you've got to make... I always tell the story about when we first arrived, we were riding in the bakfiets, I had three little kids and we'd been here like a few months or something. And my son, who's really curious, he said, mom, what's that? And I was like, I don't know, buddy. And he goes, mom, what do you know? And I was like, actually not a lot right now. Cause we're, I'm figuring this stuff out as I go A.

Brooklyn Brownstone (08:38)
Totally. Totally. Yeah.

god.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

House Of Peregrine (09:02)
I've never had a before. B, I've never had kids in Dutch school before, you know. So he was bringing out something that's potentially a fear and also can be an adventure of this extra added layer of being outside your country. And so I think that's really cool and also having someone to just, another parent to look across and be like, is this crazy? This is crazy.

Brooklyn Brownstone (09:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally. Yeah,

is this normal? But also like getting comfortable with not knowing. Like I think a lot of it is, at least in Prep to Parent, what we look to do is not to necessarily say like, you know, I mean, obviously there's some components of the program where we're like, hey, this is what a cram's org is, and this is what the consultatiebureau is. But really it's about also getting you to a place of comfort where you can say like, I don't know what that is.

House Of Peregrine (09:31)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Can you? Yep.

Brooklyn Brownstone (09:52)
this doesn't feel right for me.

know, like really being able to put up a hand or throw up a flag when you need it. And then like ideally with the people you meet in your group. So like that I think is really the best part about it all for me is that we've seen so many amazing friendships grow. I see people like hanging out all the time from it, bumping into each other.

You know, there's nothing I love more than when I see like a photo of a Prepped to Parent group with their two year olds. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (10:23)
Yeah. Well,

what we don't talk about enough is this is a massive transition. So you're actually taking people into this next phase of their life. And it's not really talked about as a life stage. becoming a parent, you might lose your colleagues, you lose your identity, and you gain something else, but you are walking through, like you said, this transition. And so for me, I always try and ritualize things.

Brooklyn Brownstone (10:27)
Totally.

No.

House Of Peregrine (10:50)
So there's no ritual. There's no, it's like in every culture, mostly in Western culture, it's like, here's the baby, have fun.

Brooklyn Brownstone (10:58)
Good night and good luck. Yeah, yeah, for sure. think that like, you know, I think that moment is also really culturalized, I guess, like there's really different ways of approaching that moment from one culture to the next. But I do think in itself, like the international community transitioning into parent is its parenthood is its own culture. Like, if I look around the room at some of these groups, like

House Of Peregrine (11:01)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Brooklyn Brownstone (11:25)
we have people from sometimes like seven different countries. And with that comes a big sort of expanded universe of what postpartum and matrescence and that whole moment can look like, what the care looks like, what the roles look like, what it really means to rest, for example, is really unique. And I love like that in this course, there's also like this cultural exchange. So for example,

whenever we start a new Prep to Parent group, always ask people what they want to be called. Like, are you going to be called mom? Are you going be called dad? And in that moment, you can see like this wealth of, yeah, cultural history coming to the table and also some uncertainty. Like, I don't know yet. You know, maybe like I want to say papa, but maybe in my language, it's something different. And actually I want to continue that with my child. And yeah, it's really cool.

House Of Peregrine (12:17)
So it's almost you're taking them through this journey because otherwise the world kind of does it for you. that taking the thought before you're thrown into the ocean is kind of nice. But also I think when you live abroad and you're outside your own culture, you are making a lot of stuff up as you go. choosing, you have more choice, but you have more responsibility as well. We always say like celebrating holidays, which holidays do you celebrate now? And with a child, there's like a deluge.

Brooklyn Brownstone (12:38)
Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (12:45)
of decisions that you have to make all at once that you're having to, it's like a custom home. Like you have a custom, you have all the decisions.

Brooklyn Brownstone (12:50)
Mm-hmm.

I think actually there's some really good benefits to that. Like I think that there's a lot of fear surrounding becoming a parent as an international family, but it's actually kind of also a really unique opportunity, not only for, you know, your little human who has exposure to so much more of the world's cultures and identities, but also like,

for you as a family to sort of redefine what parenthood and family looks like without like the pressures of your family or your, you know, traditional cultural norms being overbearing on you.

House Of Peregrine (13:28)
Yeah, couldn't agree more. But with that, being able to define family however you want, you also lose whatever support was there. If there was, in fact, support, whatever that looks like, you do. That's the only, well, that's not the only, but that is a thing that happens.

Brooklyn Brownstone (13:48)
Yeah, I mean, I think two things on that. One is that often the support that we grow up with is a little bit of a, yeah, how do I put this in a nice way? It's not always actually in existence. Like we think that living by our family means that our family's like readily available and that's not always the case. And I think that, you know, a lot of people experience that same sort of loneliness with their parents as neighbors, for example.

House Of Peregrine (14:16)
Yep.

Brooklyn Brownstone (14:18)
But I also think what's cool about not having that is that you have to be a lot more intentional around the kind of support that you want. you know, parenthood is all about learning how to ask for help. And I think that like having that sort of force on you in an earlier stage just prepares you for the rest of your life, essentially. So yeah, I think like that's one of things we really strive to do in Prep to Parent is really make sure that people

feel comfortable with that and get used to that.

House Of Peregrine (14:50)
Yeah. And I think it's actually a more collective way of going through the world. Whereas maybe in your home country, you could get by doing everything yourself. It's not pleasant, but you know how to do it. That sense of like, literally, I don't know how to buy diapers yet in Dutch or in whatever language. It's too much to hold yourself. And so it forces this more collective mindset from the beginning, which is actually, as we know, advantageous.

Brooklyn Brownstone (14:55)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Totally.

House Of Peregrine (15:18)
for parenthood in general in children.

Brooklyn Brownstone (15:20)
Yeah,

for sure. Yeah, think it's, you know, it also again forces you to think about what you really want and what you really need and being like way more intentional about how you're living your life. Which I think is like really good to have that edit, especially in parenthood where there's so much like crap thrown at us. Like you can block out a lot of that noise in this way and really like focus on the things that are serving you and feel good for you.

House Of Peregrine (15:46)
Yeah, perfect. So I know I want to ask you, so has this is built, I'm assuming you've built what you needed, like at the time.

Brooklyn Brownstone (15:55)
Totally. Yeah, I've 100 % it's actually interesting because I've built what I needed and then rebuilt it. really like over the past four years of building the Labour Department, it's been like a process of like, okay, what is essential for me as a parent here and throwing a bunch of stuff on the wall and then slowly like cutting it back.

So like there was a point when the Labour Department had 30 different programs. But what I felt like what was really needed for me was like this grounding in education, where essential education and community come together is where I found that our niche really exists. Like how can we use the moments

of challenge and like pain and confusion as opportunities to help people connect, to build their community.

House Of Peregrine (16:49)
Yeah. And

yeah, and as you're saying this, it's occurring to me that you're doing this. I hope it's okay we say your son is five now. Not a lot of people can do this while parenting. Like this is you're doing two very difficult and rewarding but difficult things at once, which is being a parent for the first time to a one year old, then a two year old, then a three year old, then a four year and building a business. And so

Brooklyn Brownstone (16:58)
Yeah, he's five now.

Yes.

House Of Peregrine (17:16)
Is your own story what gave you the determination to continue that? Continuing providing support when you also could probably use support.

Brooklyn Brownstone (17:27)
Yeah, I think that's part of it. think also like, yeah, I mean, I think my own story is definitely like the seed of the business. But I think that like the longer you're in this world, like this sort of parenting industry, I guess, the more opportunity you see, right? Like the more you see that, we should have more of this or we need more.

these kinds of events. It's like with any business, the longer you're in it, the more you refine the product, refine the product, refine the product. And for me, yeah, this business is not an industry I knew anything about. I come from a marketing background, so I'm pretty adept at selling a product in that way, but not creating one. it's been, yeah, it's a really big journey learning how to create.

education products, learning how to build teams around that to support the program. I think what's really unique about Prep to Parent is that we have many teachers teaching it. So unlike other programs where you have maybe one teacher teaching five classes, we have five teachers teaching five classes. So you'll get exposure to different perspectives and just like, yeah.

House Of Peregrine (18:34)
So my question

is, not everyone would have the strength and the determination to do this while they're a new parent. And so that it's actually really remarkable that and my other part of this question is, do you think you built your business differently because you were going through that at the same time? Not going through that, you're creating a human and creating a business.

Brooklyn Brownstone (18:44)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, it's tricky because I think that like where I built my business differently wasn't necessarily a good decision. If I can be totally candid, I think a lot of my decisions were emotional. And maybe not like, yeah, like I led with my heart in a lot of things that maybe if I was sort of came from a more traditional business background, I would have been like,

House Of Peregrine (19:07)
Hmm. Yeah.

Brooklyn Brownstone (19:22)
those profit margins aren't significant enough onward. know, like anybody. I remember really early on when I was speaking to some potential investors about the labor department. It was just that there were so many red flags for it as a business model, mainly being that we're continuously looking for new customers. You know, like once somebody does Prep to Parent, that's it. It's not like they can do it again and again and again. And that's like a big no-go for

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (19:50)
But

if I could posit as someone who has acted as an investor and is building a business, I think that that model is what's broken and not your approach, if I can say that. So if they can't see the point of an evergreen audience coming in because humans are being born every day, then that's a perspective that makes our world worse, in my opinion.

Brooklyn Brownstone (20:00)
Thank you.

Yeah. Yeah, I

think you're right. Like I think that there's a lot to be said for other forms of growth that don't just exist in repeat customers. For example, like at least 45 % of our community comes from referral. So that's like our biggest business drivers that friends are sending friends to the program. And that's really cool.

Yeah, there's definitely other ways of growth, but I'm trying to answer your question in a more positive way because I think, yeah, like, what is it that, how did being a parent help me? Well, I mean, I think it's been really healing for me. Like, I really struggled with my own experience in pregnancy. And I think like helping parents to not have that same experience has been pretty amazing. You know, I also felt like one of the reasons why I struggled so much was because

I was hearing that I should be having this certain kind of pregnancy and I should be having this certain kind of birth and that, you know, I wanted to create a different narrative. And I think just doing that has been really, really motivating. And I think like, as I'm sure you can relate, when you take time away from your family, like it better be meaningful. And it's been meaningful.

House Of Peregrine (21:20)
Yeah.

Brooklyn Brownstone (21:28)
I know that the program really matters to people and makes an impact on people's lives. So that's really rewarding. I think the other side of it is that like, how do we want to contribute to the planet? What is our role? And I think like, there's so many industries that are full of noise. And when it comes to like the dialogue around parenthood, I think a lot of it is bullshit and dangerous and harmful. And I really pride.

myself and the teachers I work with and the curriculum that we offer on the fact that I think it's really empowering stuff. You know, like there's nothing that makes me happier when somebody says like, wow, I loved how much data was in this class. You're like, yeah, that's because we like facts.

House Of Peregrine (22:09)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

give you the facts so that you can create the experience you want. Yeah. It's not to scare you, it's not to anything. It's like, become the CEO of your life. Here's all the numbers.

Brooklyn Brownstone (22:17)
Exactly, exactly. You know, I don't want anybody... Totally.

Totally, totally, totally.

That's exactly what we want to do. We want to make sure that people feel empowered to make their own decisions. And in a collective, right? Like we encourage people to come together as couples to the program or if they're not in a relationship to come with a friend or a partner. You know, we really want to make sure that these are spaces where dialogue can happen in a really positive way for everyone involved.

House Of Peregrine (22:51)
Yeah. And if I can say, like, how many governments are trying to combat loneliness? It's like, your vision's almost too effective. that is because there are inflection points in everyone's life where it becomes more lonely and less lonely. And becoming a parent is one of them. Retiring is one of them. There's all these inflection points.

Brooklyn Brownstone (22:56)
my god. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

I really love that you're talking about that inflection point because that moment in pregnancy is also one of the moments when you have the most ability to change behavior. So you've got like sort of all these things coming together in these nine months. And what we were doing or what we've seen to be doing, especially like in contemporary society is like really inundating the person experiencing that with like really harmful messaging.

that leaves them sort of frightened and alone. And yeah, I'm really trying to change that.

House Of Peregrine (23:43)
Yeah. it's instead of, so this is a weird thing I'm going to say, but for me this resonates. Like it seems like we're trying to give them choice, but we're not. Like if you're the CEO of your life, and this is what I've learned over years of building businesses and being around executive people, is they get the softest treatment from everyone around them because they are the ultimate decision maker. And in becoming a parent, you need gentle treatment. You are

Brooklyn Brownstone (23:52)
Totally.

Thank

House Of Peregrine (24:11)
dealing with these tiny people who are the future. so dealing with this harshly is actually such a bad idea for humanity. Being like, here's a bunch of painful messages. Oh, we're just trying to give you all the information. Oh, you need to do it better. You need to, it's this like, this really aggressive marketing and also effect making things harder. If you treat parents like gold, the kids get treated like gold, right? But instead we're treating parents like,

Brooklyn Brownstone (24:33)
I agree.

House Of Peregrine (24:40)
Yeah, you have to make all the decisions. it's such a turn in.

Brooklyn Brownstone (24:44)
Yeah,

I think it's a fine line, right? Like I actually struggle with this a lot because I do hear our instructors, like when they get some questions, they will say like it, you really have to do what's right for you and your family. So it is like a fine line between here's the information, how can I give this to you gently? And ultimately like it is what's right for you and your family. But I think that it's the attitude that we, we come at that from like,

Brooklyn Brownstone (25:12)
What's right for you and your family is a decision that you can make when you feel happy and healthy and safe and respected, right? So yeah, like just trying to work on building that piece so that people can navigate through all the information. I think if you're overwhelmed, if you're scared, if you're frightened of the

House Of Peregrine (25:21)
and respected. Yeah.

Yeah, and what

Brooklyn Brownstone (25:37)
consequences, if you don't feel like you have the wherewithal and all the information, if you don't feel secure in your partnership where you're making that decision together, if you don't feel safe in your body, yeah, it doesn't matter what decision you make because it won't feel good. I think like the hardest part of making a decision is making the decision. There's no wrong decision, you just need to make one and being able to say yes or no comes from, you know, having confidence.

House Of Peregrine (25:50)
can't make good decisions.

Yeah, and we're actually eating away at that confidence instead of supporting that confidence. And that's the parallel I want to make to corporate life is that if you get high enough up on the food chain, people are speaking to you gently. People like your assistants, your people who are dealing with you, you are the ultimate decision maker. They are dealing with you gently. They are not being like,

Brooklyn Brownstone (26:10)
Totally, Absolutely.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (26:29)
You're the CEO. They're not screaming at you like you're the CEO. Make a decision. That's the rest of the world. Yeah, like the rest of the world might be doing that and your profit margins, but the people in your team, they're speaking to you kindly and they don't want you to make rash decisions. So that's the parallel I like to draw like software that's made for parents is just like it's the wrong power structure is set up.

Brooklyn Brownstone (26:31)
Yeah. Airbnb, Airbnb. Yeah.

No, Yeah.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (26:55)
And that's a little esoteric, but that's that's how I felt as a parent. was like watching my partner who I love and cherish He was the executive of tech company being treated so nicely by everyone around him and I was like You know, like people are treating me like a control your kid beat him make can make their food and like You know, no one was treating me gently I guess

Brooklyn Brownstone (27:05)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, no, it's true. It's really a backwards way of society that I'm sad that we've landed at, but I'm really hoping that, yeah, more businesses like mine will start to pop up to encourage a different way of thinking. And also, like, I think the other thing is that it's not, I think we've made big steps in terms of moms and support for moms, especially postpartum.

But I do find there's a bit of a gap still in how we approach the family unit from like fertility on, which we're working on.

House Of Peregrine (27:50)
Yep.

Yeah. And strides for women is like so overdue, but so is for families. And that's, I love how you say, I hope more businesses start like mine. Like that is also not a normal mindset for a business owner. I just want to highlight how many ways you're thinking about business differently.

Brooklyn Brownstone (28:02)
Yeah.

Thank you. I think that like, the more the better. I think that the more we normalize supporting parents and building products and platforms that do that, the better. I think that like what we want is to pivot this kind of education from being a nice to have to a must. And I think that sort of radical tipping point only comes from more industries to support it. Like for example,

Um, if we take like the baby industry, which is like completely oversaturated, you know, there's a reason why we think we all need like sensory toys. And it's because we have a million businesses that make them. So I'm not really afraid of that in any way. I've really struggled with how I approach competition, if you will. My main thing is I think that we need it.

House Of Peregrine (29:03)
Yeah, but also I think it's because of how we value things. Like if you can make the 100th sensory baby toy, that's fundable. If you're making a community around people who are at this very, like how long do you use that toy, that sensory toy? Is that a one-time purchase? my God, my God, clutching pearls. It's a one, but education for.

Brooklyn Brownstone (29:11)
Yeah, totally.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

House Of Peregrine (29:28)
Prep to parent is also a one-time. No one's going through pearls.

Brooklyn Brownstone (29:31)
It's a one,

no, no one's touching their pearls. It's also like normalizing the investment. It's wild. It's totally wild looking at like where we spend our money in parenthood. And like, I think you can literally see like the where impact and price completely go the opposite direction. We spend like a

House Of Peregrine (29:55)
Yep. Totally.

Brooklyn Brownstone (29:58)
an outrageous amount postpartum on baby. That's like really our key spending moment. We spend a significant amount on birth. We spend very little on everything else, especially when it comes to us as like the drivers in these situations. So yeah, really trying to shift that.

House Of Peregrine (30:20)
Yeah, that's amazing. And that goes to gender norms in society in general, where women and mothers are not as important and not highlighted, not cared for. And it's this notion of caring for the carers and then you get better outcomes. It's just, it is the way.

Brooklyn Brownstone (30:28)
Yeah.

I tell you,

so last night we kicked off one of our Prep to Parent groups. And last night we were doing the preparing for postpartum class. And I don't go to all the groups, but I try to pop into at least one week of one session a month. We usually run three groups a month. And the first question one of the partners asked was, what are the signs that I can look out for for postpartum depression in my partner? Like, how can I identify if she's experiencing postpartum depression?

And in that moment, I just thought like, holy shit, what if everybody knew that? Like, what would the outcome be on families? Like in that one question. So yeah, like if you're talking about caring for the carers, like empowering us to know what that looks like is mega.

House Of Peregrine (31:12)
Yeah.

Yeah. Do you ever have people in my own journey, I was really afraid of anyone thinking I had postpartum depression. I don't know where that came from. Some irrational fear inside of my head had it that someone would take my kids or something.

Brooklyn Brownstone (31:28)
Yes.

Well, that fear is mega. I know that like in our mental health class in Prep to Parent, there's a lot of talk around like the fear of your children being taken away. And I think that probably has a lot to do with not understanding the system that we're in, right? Cause we're not from here. really?

House Of Peregrine (31:53)
No, this was in the States. I also, I didn't know enough,

but like it wasn't a rational thing that was happening. Like I should have, if I were in my right mind, I'd be like, so you're going to help me babysit. like I will get some, like take, you're not going to take them from me, but it wasn't, what I want to say, I guess, is that acknowledging that you are in a different mindset, your body's different, like your instincts take over a bit more than

Brooklyn Brownstone (31:58)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (32:20)
than I was prepared for. And the instinct that they're gonna take my kids is not a rational one. It's a body felt experience. But just knowing that someone like for someone to whisper in my ear, like they can't take your kids at the right moment would have probably been useful even though it's not a rational thought, right?

Brooklyn Brownstone (32:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah,

but also probably what would have been useful for you is like if while you were pregnant, somebody had told you that you might have a lot of irrational thoughts postpartum. And if you have them, you should share them. And then we can help you decide which ones are realistic and which ones aren't. And I think that's the kind of like interventions that we're hoping to make in Prep to Parent is really helping people to navigate what that future looks like and

House Of Peregrine (32:53)
Yeah.

Brooklyn Brownstone (33:05)
when to reach out for support, when they need support, how to do that. Yeah, just to identify what this whole thing can look like.

House Of Peregrine (33:13)
Yeah. And what I knew for certain, and this is what, you know, what I wasn't certain, and this is another thing, is the landscape. Right? I thought if I tell someone, there's not support there for me. It's not like there's a nanny or kraamzorg like here that is there, the government's looking out for it. In the US at least, it was like, yeah, here's some medicine. And so that knowing that was also

Brooklyn Brownstone (33:33)
Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (33:38)
Maybe there were groups, maybe there were doctors, maybe there were, but I didn't know them, so it just felt pointless. Does that make sense?

Brooklyn Brownstone (33:42)
Yeah,

for sure. And I think like knowing somebody who knows them, like having access to a network of information. That's why like when you join Prep to Parent, you also get access to this portal and on the portal is like everyone. Now therapists, lactation coaches, postpartum doulas, anybody that you would need to hold your hand is readily available.

House Of Peregrine (33:56)
Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah. And I would just like to say, should be expected, like you said, to ask for help. Like, expecting yourself to do everything is a good way to burn out. It's a really good way to have parental burnout. And so that's what we're setting people up for. And so I love what you're doing. It's almost like you can tap into this needed resource that's not there otherwise. So yeah, that's really cool.

Brooklyn Brownstone (34:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Totally.

House Of Peregrine (34:29)
What I want to know from you is what in the Labour Department do you ever talk about language? How language is used for women?

Brooklyn Brownstone (34:37)
Yeah, I mean, is used for women or in general?

House Of Peregrine (34:40)
in general. I think you talked about harmful messages, so I just wanted to talk about that a little bit.

Brooklyn Brownstone (34:45)
Yeah, I mean, we certainly do a lot with birth. think like, I try not to get, I try to like, encourage people not to use terms like natural birth in reference to vaginal births, for example. I think language can be like really empowering or disempowering. But yeah, it definitely is like a big point of conversation across the board. And it's changing a lot. Like I think when it comes to breastfeeding, for example,

We, some people wanna call it chestfeeding now. There's like, you know, lot of evolutions happening in that area. Yeah, just trying to keep up with it, I guess. And I think from sort of a general standpoint, again, it's not that we have like specific language that we want people to use. It's more about being open and encouraging of the language that's right for them.

House Of Peregrine (35:32)
Yeah. And I think that's actually the key that I would, instead of trying to make everyone use the same language, it's almost like use that as a key. Like, if they're saying mother, like this is what I did when my kids were little. if I went into a museum and I felt like I couldn't be there with my kids and I had to be tense all the time, that museum just wasn't for us. Right. so it's, wasn't that I needed the museum to change. wasn't, but it's like, I'm not welcome here. I need to listen to that and go somewhere I am welcome.

Brooklyn Brownstone (35:51)
Yes. Yeah.

Yes.

House Of Peregrine (36:00)
Or if like a friend

Brooklyn Brownstone (36:00)
Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (36:01)
and I couldn't get along about, if we couldn't respect each other's worth experience, it'd be like, cool, I don't need you to change and me to change. But finding your places as a parent is really important.

Brooklyn Brownstone (36:13)
Yeah, totally. Finding the right fit, finding your crew, finding the people who see you. I think that's also what we really try to do with our community is help people connect and find those people that can support them and can really see who they are and validate the experience they're having. There's nothing worse than being in a space where you feel completely unwelcomed. And yeah,

I think that as internationals, kind of always feel that way a little bit. So we're trying to change that as much as we can with our community.

House Of Peregrine (36:41)
It's so true.

Yeah. So tell me, so in 20 years, you will have a 21 year old and labor department will be doing the 30 programs you say, tell me your dreams for labor department, even if you're not running it. What is the land? What does the landscape look like for what labor department's trying to do and beyond? What does the world look like if you've done your job?

Brooklyn Brownstone (36:53)
god.

⁓

Yeah, think like we're just, we're trying to really disrupt the way that parents walk into an education lens. So really shifting the emphasis away from birth and on to like a more holistic version of what it means to transition from being an adult to a parent. And, you know, ideally doing that in community. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (37:33)
But are there

people who are now getting back together and being like, my god, we have teenagers. Let's walk through that together. Is that?

Brooklyn Brownstone (37:38)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

I I think that it's like a lifelong project that you're signing up for. And I think that how you start that project really sets the tone for your evolutions further on. think I'm not quite in a place with the business yet where we want to expand our education to teens. Though I had like, I've had some pretty inspiring conversations around that. But I think like where we are

we will probably always stay rooted on is like empowering the parent as much as we can. So we are less interested in educating babies or teens or kids or toddlers and more interested in educating the parent as sort of the leader of that group, I guess. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (38:24)
Yeah. But I can tell

you, having teenagers, I have a 13 year old and a 12 year old, is almost as big of a transition. Not that you have to do this, but I think, like you said, parenthood is a lifelong project with many inflection points, but it is an entire paradigm shift to empower parents and to bring them together and have that be valuable.

Brooklyn Brownstone (38:30)
Ow.

Yeah

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (38:50)
and fill in this gap that's actually missing and actually how to raise a human. That's a massive gap.

Brooklyn Brownstone (38:54)
Yeah, well,

I think what's interesting is that like along all those moments, there's a backbone that exists like holistically that exists across it all, right? It's about having the confidence to make empowered choices. And I think that's really where we come in. And whether that's like, whether or not your teenager should have a phone or whether or not you should bed share with your baby.

those are both those, how you make those decisions are really rooted in your own, yeah, confidence.

House Of Peregrine (39:27)
But

that, yeah, and that question is super interesting. And this is where the backbone has to be community. You cannot make the decision if your teen has a phone in isolation. It is impossible. You are, we tried, I can assure you. I have one of those tech husbands who thought it was a great idea to not let our kids have phones till they were in middle bar school. Social suicide. We learned the hard way that that is a community decision and not an individual.

Brooklyn Brownstone (39:32)
Yeah.

you

So, yeah.

Yeah. ⁓ God, yeah.

House Of Peregrine (39:55)
decision.

Brooklyn Brownstone (39:56)
Yeah, yeah, I'm part of the whole smartphone free childhood movement that's happening here in the Netherlands. Right. It's really, yeah, you really have to be lucky enough to be in a class of with parents who are willing to commit together. I'm really glad I don't have a kid at that age yet. So.

House Of Peregrine (40:04)
Me too, but it was not happening three years ago.

Yeah. But my point is

I would have loved to have a group that I have known since babies that I trusted. what you're building is actually the infrastructure for parenting. Yeah.

Brooklyn Brownstone (40:24)
Yeah.

Yeah, I hope so for future decisions. Yeah, you're

right. Like that's really interesting to think about these parents 20 years from now. I mean, I know that those collective decisions are already being made. Like I see it in their childcare choices, in their product buying power, in their, you know, a lot of people have chosen not to go back to work in a traditional sense and have started their own things. And I think that that has a lot to do with like seeing it in other

in their community. But yeah, it is kind of cool to think of like, parents that have done Prep to Parent 20 years from now. I'm going to the second birthday of the first Prep to Parent group. And it's all, it's one of the kids is turning two, and they've invited all the other Prep to Parent parents. So it's really, that's our oldest group. So I'm really excited to see that.

House Of Peregrine (41:08)
Amazing, amazing.

Yep, and I can say to you that whoever did not invest in your company from the beginning was a massive idiot because this is powerful stuff, but it cannot be, and this is a trend we see all over the place, and it's actually becoming more valued. Community building is actually value.

Brooklyn Brownstone (41:28)
Yes.

Yeah, I think you're right. think what we're trying to do is bridge that with building a sustainable business. What does it mean to build a sustainable business that is value driven and that connects people in a meaningful way? And really trying to unlock where those two things collide, I guess, is a little bit of trial and error. But I think we're slowly getting there.

House Of Peregrine (41:56)
Yep.

Yeah, of course. You're outside the traditional systems, I get it. And then as professional person, you're also doing that as well.

Brooklyn Brownstone (42:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, so I think like once I, it's interesting, I became a parent in a corporate environment and I saw a lot of gaps in that experience. So another branch of the Labour Department is like the corporate strategy work we do. We're helping businesses to have infrastructure that really supports parents. We see a lot of burnout amongst new parents. We see obviously,

big, guess, overall well-being dip in the return to work moment. And we're really trying to pivot how businesses support people through pregnancy and postpartum in the workplace. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (42:46)
And

the connection I make here, and this is maybe one that you've already made as well, is empowering parents makes it so they also become harder to bring back to the workplace if it doesn't work for And so it goes from supporting parents to recruiting parents. So the turn that could be made is like, I've heard it a lot, right? Like, we need to support parents. It's a good investment.

Brooklyn Brownstone (43:04)
Totally. Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (43:12)
Parents are opting out. This does not work for them. So the turn of language is recruit parents back. You need to recruit them back. Like you're not supporting them.

Brooklyn Brownstone (43:14)
Yes, hugely. It's not working for them. then, you mean the cost? Yeah.

I love that. Yeah, I really love that. The

cost is so high also. Anybody who has worked in corporate knows the cost of hiring a new employee is significant. And really, we just need to make some tweaks along the experience for people going on maternity leave to ensure that that doesn't happen.

House Of Peregrine (43:44)
Yeah, and I would invoke Jane Jacobs here in saying if it works for parents, it works for everybody. And when we look at cities and how they're built, if it works for women and children, it works for everybody better. If it's built for men, it only works for men and of a certain age and a certain ability. So I would invoke the Jane Jacobs philosophy to corporate workplace strategies. It's not going to be worse for men or non-parents.

Brooklyn Brownstone (43:49)
Love that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally. Yeah, it's really... Yeah. No.

House Of Peregrine (44:10)
I get that the discussion is that it puts more on their shoulders if we give flexibility to parents, I understand, but what if it's just people and not parents?

Brooklyn Brownstone (44:18)
Yeah,

no, exactly. Like I think when we hear parents, so quickly we're thinking like, it's really expensive and it's really niche. But actually if it works for them, it works for everyone as well. You're 100 % right. And I think that like, yeah, these aren't like nice to haves. These are staples that we really should be considering more and ensuring that companies have.

included in there. And I would say to any parents looking at companies, you should really ask what those policies look like, what their benefits look like in those areas, how they support parents returning to work, how they support, for example, career growth after you've had a child. It's a really good, I think, temperature check on how forward thinking a company is and what the support system is going to look like for you there.

House Of Peregrine (45:06)
Yeah, I would

say it's antiquated to have any other way. as a core, like I've no, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be surprised, but I am, I'm refusing to accept it. That's what it is.

Brooklyn Brownstone (45:12)
You'd be surprised at like how, yeah. Yeah,

no, it is quite interesting though to see like how few companies has anything beyond. Yeah, I can't think of any companies that are really, I'm like blown away by their maternity leave support system. It's not really where it should be, I think where.

companies have done really well is that they're like, we're gonna beef up the leave time. We'll give you more time. But they haven't really matched that with a support system for reintegration. So that's really what we're working on.

House Of Peregrine (45:46)
Yeah.

Yeah. And do you think that business, this is a question I ask myself all the time. Do you think that the way businesses are built is incompatible actually with? I think it's systemic problem. don't think it's a, like parents are not the problem. Like making humans shouldn't be a Dutch, like something you do and it.

Brooklyn Brownstone (46:06)
Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (46:11)
negatively benefits you.

Brooklyn Brownstone (46:12)
Yeah. Do yeah, I don't. Yeah, like, can you be a working parent and be successful in both areas?

House Of Peregrine (46:22)
No, can you be a successful business and have parents? And be with the way companies are built and work on the corporate side as well as everywhere. It's not the can you be a successful parent or a successful person. If I turn it around and say, you be a successful company? Because that's what I want to build is a successful company who allows people to be human and in that encompasses being a parent, being sick sometimes, having a bad day.

Brooklyn Brownstone (46:24)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (46:52)
taking care of taking a vacation.

Brooklyn Brownstone (46:55)
I think if we're open

to re-examining how work is distributed and communicated and our roles, I think the answer is yes. I really do. think that like there is, if I look at how many changes we've made for technology, for example,

House Of Peregrine (47:07)
I do too.

Brooklyn Brownstone (47:22)
If I look at how many changes we were able to make in the face of COVID, like I really don't see why we can't be making more shifts for parents. Yeah, so I feel like the answer is yes. But I also feel like it is in partnership with my question, which is like my challenge, which is can you have it both? And I think like, can you be a successful parent and have a successful career?

House Of Peregrine (47:30)
Yeah, me too. Yes.

Brooklyn Brownstone (47:50)
And I think there is where we need to like really re-evaluate what success looks like in those areas. And ideally like bring in more support externally.

House Of Peregrine (48:02)
Yeah, no, there's no way could do what I do. I do what I do because I live next to my kids' and work next to my kids' throughout the journey, I've had different support. But they're not...

Brooklyn Brownstone (48:10)
Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (48:18)
Again, everything seems inside out, right? So if you're lucky enough, if you're wealthy enough, you're blah, blah, blah, determined enough, that's when you can do this. But for me, that's where the change needs to come from, is we need to recruit parents, not support them.

Brooklyn Brownstone (48:20)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love that recruit parent. I'm writing that down. That's a good one.

House Of Peregrine (48:40)
But I love this notion that you're, but what gave me the hint that you are building things differently is you said you have five courses and five different people teaching those courses. That's a change in how things are done.

Brooklyn Brownstone (48:49)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's a big change in how things are done. think. Yeah, and it's not necessarily like. Yeah, again, like a lot of the decisions I made have been made based on like what I needed and what I felt was.

good enough and I think sometimes my business bar has been a little bit too high. And yeah, I'm definitely evaluating that and looking at that now and trying to sort of determine how necessary that is. But what I wanted was to make sure that people were learning or exposed to a variety of voices because I think who you meet along your journey in pregnancy really informs who you think you'll get when you reach out to for help.

the other side. And it was really important to me that people left feeling connected to at least one person or like, if I need some help, that's what I'm going to get. And I really liked her or them or you know, so but again, trying to figure out what what sits well for me there.

House Of Peregrine (49:50)
Yeah, and it occurs to me that you said you made a lot of decisions based on your heart and you don't know if that was wise. I would just say that it made me like super tickled that you said that, that you made decisions based on your heart and what you needed. I know the traditional business. I know it. I know that's not what you're supposed to do. But I think if you see what I see, I see a business being created differently and in a way.

Brooklyn Brownstone (50:05)
Yeah.

House Of Peregrine (50:17)
that the world really needs and it's creating real value and not just investable value.

Brooklyn Brownstone (50:22)
Yeah, that's really

kind of you. I appreciate that. think like, yeah, you know, like if you're gonna take time away from your family, it better be meaningful. And I think that at the end of the day, all I have is meat. Like I can't blame anybody else. So I needed to make sure that the decisions that I was making, like I could really stick up for them.

it's hard to stick up for something you don't fully believe in. So I think that if I look at like the next, say, year of the Labour Department, I think a lot of changes will happen to facilitate more growth, especially like more access. I think that we're currently like slightly limited by geography and timing and all those So I'm...

House Of Peregrine (50:49)
Yeah, I it.

Brooklyn Brownstone (51:08)
I'm curious and excited to see how that shifts. But one thing I've been trying to do is just like be more open to smashing it all down in order to build it back up. think I've applied so many like kookier ways of approaching the decisions I've made, like, what feels best. And now I'm trying to like do that to the future thinking as well.

House Of Peregrine (51:31)
Yeah. And if I could say that builds a business differently when you build on a different foundation, it just does. And it doesn't matter what you almost doesn't matter what you do next. If you apply then regular business standards to it, it still has different outcomes. It does not matter if in a growth phase, in my opinion, you then apply those principles. It's like a really powerful tool, but you've built the base on something completely different and that leads to a different tree. It really does.

Brooklyn Brownstone (51:35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think you're totally right. I'm really curious to see what that looks like and where we land.

House Of Peregrine (52:04)
I love how candidly you're speaking about your business because I think I'm also, we're kind of both business people who are doing business in a different way. And I love that you're letting us see that. I think it's really beautiful.

Brooklyn Brownstone (52:11)
Yes. Yes.

Well, yeah, think that there's, yeah, I love the idea of like built in public, like these sort of just tearing down on the walls and saying like, here's my infrastructure. And I really think that's why we've had so much success is because people feel connected to the success of this community. They feel that they are really part of its growth and they are like each, I really value our community members as.

sort of board members for what we're growing here. And I've really tried to build for them and for their needs and in a way that works for them. think, yeah, we're now at a place just where we're kind of at like a critical mass moment where we need to just make some decisions around the best path forward, which could also just be continuing what we're already doing. But knowing me, that's not gonna be the answer. It's gonna be like, what's the next step?

And also like, what's the next step that feels right? Like I, a lot of the steps that people have suggested to me just didn't feel right. Like I don't really want to add more noise, you know? Like I think what we have is really good. I don't think that we need to like, yeah, I want to try to grow in a way that's thoughtful and productive. And like, for example,

House Of Peregrine (53:29)
Mm-hmm.

Brooklyn Brownstone (53:33)
Our birth class is like really about the phases of birth. It's about the physiology of birth. And then it really goes into like the birth system here in the Netherlands. I could also offer like a million other birth classes. I just, there's so much of that already. So, and people who are doing it brilliantly, not only in the Netherlands, but more international. So like, that's not really.

a content stream that I want to contribute to more, even though everybody has told me to do that. So yeah, it's about like trying to make sound business decisions that also feel right for what the world needs.

House Of Peregrine (54:12)
Do you also feel like in a way you're not a content company? You're a company who does content.

Brooklyn Brownstone (54:14)
Thanks.

Yeah, actually, that's a really good question. Like, who am I? yeah, because it's totally pivoted. Like, I think when I started my business, I was a content business. It started as like a curation platform. And then I was a retail business. And then I was a community. And now it's like, been pretty split between like education.

House Of Peregrine (54:24)
Welcome to business, everybody. Welcome to business. Existential crises.

Brooklyn Brownstone (54:46)
as a gateway to community, but what does that mean in practical terms? Like what is my product? I think it is content, but that feels so cringe for me. But I think it's because as a, I guess a millennial, I feel like when I hear content, it's like useless garbage and the content we're producing is not useless garbage. It makes a difference in people's lives.

House Of Peregrine (55:09)
It does. Even your content on social media, which I also think is cringe to say that I make content on social media, it's not my favorite thing to admit I do, it has helped me feel more connected in the world just by reading it. So you are, I think there's a difference in how you do it.

Brooklyn Brownstone (55:16)
Yes.

thank you. I always...

thanks. That's really nice because every time somebody tells me they found out about the Labour Department through social media, I feel like I need to apologize. Like... Yeah, I really appreciate that. That in itself has really changed actually for me. I think, like just going back to the balance between being a parent and running the business, especially like...

just to speak more candidly, I've been going through like a fertility journey over the past few years as well, trying to get pregnant again. And I've had to definitely like pull back on social media in order to do that. four years ago, I was like on stories live every single day. And I've just really minimized that for my own like mental wellbeing. just, you know, overall, I've really sort of said like,

I can only do what feels good for me. And I'm not gonna do more than that. I refuse to be like burnt out by this. So just trying to like create some boundaries that feel better for me.

House Of Peregrine (56:24)
You're already changing the world just by doing that, I can assure you.

Brooklyn Brownstone (56:26)
I hope so. Thank you for that.

House Of Peregrine (56:29)
Well, thank you so much. I want to be mindful of your time, but I could talk to you for hours about this. I think it's really easy to get lost in being a business owner. I know this myself. I don't even like to say business owner. I don't even know what I would call myself. The CEO and founder of a company is wearing, it's like swimming in the ocean while creating the ocean. They say it's like building the plane while you're flying it. These are all ways of saying that I see what you're doing from a different perspective than you do. I...

Brooklyn Brownstone (56:32)
Thank you.

Yeah.

Hahaha

House Of Peregrine (56:54)
applaud what you're up to and I can't wait to see it grow. yeah, stay with us. We'll put everything for people to get in touch with you in the show notes below. But what is the best place for people to connect with Labour Department if they want to?

Brooklyn Brownstone (57:03)
Amazing.

Yeah,

just visit us online at www.thelabourdept.com It's the best way. Yeah, or you can always hit us up on Instagram at the labordept. It's L-A-B-O-U-R, the Canadian spelling. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about all this. It's just so nice to like connect with another.

House Of Peregrine (57:14)
Okay, and that's kind of the portal to everything.

Canadian spelling. Yeah, you got to it. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on.

Brooklyn Brownstone (57:34)
founder and another mom in this way. So thank you. really appreciate it.

House Of Peregrine (57:39)
Yes, thank you so much. All right, everyone. Thanks so much for joining us today. We'll talk to you next time and have a great week.

Brooklyn Brownstone (57:41)
Awesome.

Bye.