Melissa Parks (00:00)
living abroad for however long you go abroad, whether it's your whole life or it's, you know, just it's a few years, maybe even a few months. I love to see it as an invitation. It's an invitation to go deeper. And I think a lot of times the struggles people have are because they don't want to go deeper because it's scary.
House Of Peregrine (00:10)
Yep. Yep.
Melissa Parks (00:16)
because we don't have the tools usually to deal with that kind of stuff.
House Of Peregrine (00:51)
Hello everyone and welcome back to the House of Peregrine podcast. I'm Mickelle Weber and I am so glad you are here with us. If you've ever lived abroad, you know this feeling. You look up one day and realize the version of you that made sense back home doesn't quite fit anymore. You're not in crisis exactly, but you are in between. You're reorienting and you're becoming someone new. Sometimes the hardest part isn't the logistics of life between cultures. It's what happens inside while you are becoming.
My guest today is Melissa Parks. She's the author of the memoir, A Compassionate Mess, A Therapist Her Monsters and A Journey to Self-Acceptance. She holds a PhD and is a therapist turned coach who spent more than a decade living and working in Spain and the Netherlands, supporting globally mobile people through identity shifts, transitions, and the emotional complexity of belonging in more than one place.
She is also the co-founder of the Location Independent Therapist Community. Her work there is rooted in something that sounds simple, but is genuinely radical when you're in a season of change, self-compassion. You might already think you know what that is, but I can assure you we have new insight for you today. in an intercultural Spanish-English family. But as you'll hear,
of her heart will always belong to Madrid. So she now has the full experience of repatriation to add to her life experiences. Thank you so much for joining us today Melissa. I'm so excited to talk to you.
Melissa Parks (02:16)
excited to talk to you as well, Mickelle Thank you so much for inviting me to come on. And I'm so excited to see where we take things because I'm like, ooh, you gave my full story right there. Where are we going to go?
House Of Peregrine (02:29)
So many trailheads. Yes, and I've had the privilege of reading an advanced copy of your book, which I really appreciate and enjoyed very much. And so I want to start. Tell us just briefly your path of being an international person and a little, you go over in the book, but maybe give us the quick version. Yeah.
Melissa Parks (02:30)
Yeah.
You
The summarized version. ⁓
Yes, well, yeah, if you want the full version, get the book. But well, you know, from reading my book, really moving abroad for me. grew up in Seattle, ⁓ lived, yeah, grew up here in a suburb of Seattle. Nobody would have thought that I was going to go abroad. So when I had a plan to do grad school in the US, and that was 2008 and the economy fell apart here. And so I was like,
I need a plan B. I'm gonna go do a gap year, like what they call it in Europe, a gap year. And I'm gonna go to Spain and I'm gonna teach English. And then I stayed there for 10 years. So that's the most summarized version of the story. Nobody thought I was gonna come back though either. That's the interesting thing too, even though in my heart, I really wanted to find a way to be near my family again.
House Of Peregrine (03:39)
Yeah, that makes sense. Listen, I'm 10 years into a one year move abroad, so I get it. Places like that. mean, that's that's the thing about chapters and seasons of our lives is place plays a big part in that. And so you've done the full version of place and change in all of this.
Melissa Parks (03:44)
You know. You know how that happens.
House Of Peregrine (04:01)
But what I loved about your book, as you told it in this personal way as a memoir instead of academic paper or something. And so maybe tell me what started as a breakup was so much more.
Melissa Parks (04:10)
Yeah.
Yeah, well, I always knew I wanted to probably to write a book. I hoped that if I went abroad, I would have a story, you know, even in that was only supposed to be one year. Maybe I'd come home with some stories to write. I would have never guessed that the start of my story as my book was a breakup. It was four years into my time abroad. ⁓ I stayed abroad for grad school and also because I met somebody there and I
kind of thought that that was, I was gonna stay in Spain forever and this was gonna be a relationship that would last forever. I'm really glad it didn't. I was looking, but that was, you know, with hindsight. it, my life exploded, but in the very best of ways. It, you know, it took me to my own therapy, which I dabbled in therapy before, but had kind of...
my own training, I went to grad school in Spain and my training was very much like, you are the expert, you are the one, you are perfect. don't think anybody ever said that, but it was very much like the patient is the one with the problem. The therapist is the one with the expertise. That didn't really ever jive with me, but I didn't feel like I had the space to, or the encouragement to go seek therapy. And so it really took.
House Of Peregrine (05:32)
So the therapist got
broken up with and then found her own therapy. And you got broken up with while you were in another country. That's another.
Melissa Parks (05:36)
Yes. It was the only choice.
Yes, it's just so unbelievable now. again, it's part, it's great. I turned it into a book. But when I think back to that time in my life, it was weeks before my sister's wedding. I was in Seattle. My boyfriend at the time, who again, I had been with for about four years then, called me over Skype from our apartment that we lived in together and, and told me it wasn't gonna work.
You're supposed to come here in two weeks. Like we're going to on a trip to Alaska together that we plan. He's like, I've been thinking about this for months. What?
House Of Peregrine (06:17)
Yeah, and in those cases, it's not simple, especially when visas and apartments and these things, these are things that often are so romantic to have in a love affair abroad, but they come with real life consequences and breakups aren't just breakups. maybe was that part of your story there?
Melissa Parks (06:23)
exactly.
Exactly. ⁓
yes. I mean, don't know which scenario, like which vision of my future flashed through my head first. Was it the my heart is broken, we're not going to be together anymore? Or was it how am I supposed to like, you you're the ticket to my visa and like my work permission and my possibilities. ⁓ I just finished my masters. And so I was pursuing the opportunity to work as a therapist in Spain. And it was like,
But that's tied to you. We just got, we just had a domestic partnership that we set up. So like, how is this happening?
House Of Peregrine (07:14)
my gosh, wow. And that makes it, yeah, so much more than a breakup.
Melissa Parks (07:15)
Yes. Yes. So I talked so
much more than a breakup. Yeah. I mean, I lost. It's like everything you could lose in a breakup. But I mean, anyone who's lived abroad knows too, like how much your partner can mean. And this, my partner was Spanish. So was also my connection to the culture. His family was my family. It was really hard. my therapist at the time was like, it's like you're a table that got all its legs cut off. And that really
I felt that to my core. was like, yes, what do I do now? Like what in the world do I do now? I didn't even know if I was gonna go back to Spain. I think I was home for six weeks at that point back in Seattle. And everyone was telling me, just stay, just stay, right? Like, we'll be here for you. But I had a whole life back
House Of Peregrine (08:03)
So what took you back?
Yeah, your life there was stronger than your life. Not stronger, but that's what.
Melissa Parks (08:09)
Yeah, it was a-
I don't know that my life was stronger. think it was part of it was a stubbornness like that I didn't, I didn't want, he wasn't the reason I moved abroad. I moved abroad for myself. I didn't want someone else to be my reason for staying home. I didn't also didn't have a very clear plan for what I would do if I stayed at home. I knew I'd have my family and my friends that I had grown up with, but.
House Of Peregrine (08:19)
Yeah.
Melissa Parks (08:34)
I didn't know what my next chapter in Spain was going to look like, but it just, it was like a gut instinct, right? I think so much of the, when we live these lives abroad, so much of it is based on like our gut feeling, right? Because it's not logical to move yourself halfway around the world.
House Of Peregrine (08:42)
Yeah.
It is not. That is the truest thing anyone's ever said on my podcast.
Melissa Parks (08:53)
Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (08:57)
It's more like a love affair than it is a logical choice. ⁓ Please say that again. We can say that again a bunch of times. It is not logical to move across the world.
Melissa Parks (09:00)
Yes.
Yes. Yes, it was not logical.
And it wasn't logical to go back either, it was. It was like a love affair, right? Like I couldn't, I lost this love, love of my life so that he wasn't in love of my life. like, you know, I had this love that I had with him, but it was like, okay, well that's gone.
but I still had the love for Spain. I fell in love with Spain when I went there for the first time in my twenties on a study abroad trip. And I had never thought that I would, I wanted to go abroad in college again for, it was a gut instinct kind of thing. But I didn't, I didn't anticipate like the love that would await me there with Spain and that I would suddenly think to myself, okay, maybe I don't want to live in the U S for the rest of my life. Maybe there's this whole world out there.
And but yeah, mostly it was Spain. just, I, you you read that my, heart is still in Madrid. It really is. You know, I, my husband, he has Spanish citizenship and we talk all the time about like, should we go back? When will we go back? And I wish I could live in two places at once, honestly. Maybe three, cause I do, I loved my life in Amsterdam too.
House Of Peregrine (10:17)
Yeah. Yeah. And that's what we talk about a lot here is that your home is never one place again. Your heart is in multiple places. And that's the heartbreak of this life. I mean, it really is. And no one really prepares you for it, which is what I'm trying to do. ⁓ It's worth it. It's just like falling in love, right? It's better to have love and lost than never to have love at all. But ⁓ it is an expected change in this constitution of your life. ⁓
Melissa Parks (10:23)
Yes.
It is.
House Of Peregrine (10:46)
And so I want to talk about that a little bit, like that compound grief that you are talking about, we can name it, it's compound grief, because you hadn't just lost a partner, you'd lost your home, your visa, your support system, and your family. that it's more than a breakup is the technical term, since you are a PhD, is compound grief. And so how did naming that help you, or how does that help when you're explaining these things to people?
that are going through, whether losses or even gaining things, you're always losing. So when you move abroad, you're losing time with your family. There's always two sides or multiple sides to every big life event. And so how do you walk your patients through this or how do you explain it to them?
Melissa Parks (11:22)
Yeah.
Thank
Yeah,
yeah. So I do think naming it is huge. And I guess what I often think about is like, I don't know, I love like metaphors or just ways to like visualize things and thinking about it. We talk about like people having, you have a lot on your plate, right? And it kind of is that, right? Like thinking about, or how my therapist said it, right? Like, what were all the things holding you up that you just lost? So whatever metaphor it is we use, I think some way to visualize what it is that you're holding
Because that's really the only way we can bring in self-compassion, right? It's like we really have to look at it, even though we don't want to. Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (12:10)
And so walk me through that exercise because self-compassion
is not the word that I would have brought to this. And so I really want you to weave it through this idea of this compound grief or loss. So let's weave it through because again, that's not a word I would have used and that means we need to talk about it.
Melissa Parks (12:17)
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
So yeah, it's, it's self-compassion. It's mindful self-compassion. And so really it's the very first step of self-compassion is being mindful and being mindful is acknowledging without getting sucked into it, what we have right in front of us. And so that's, that's what I'm talking about is like looking at it, facing it head on, acknowledging everything that you're carrying. So
I think so often we don't want to do that because it's like, I acknowledge all of it, everything that I've lost, that is just going to weigh me down. ⁓ I'm not going to be able to get out of that. But really, I think it's so important because how can we bring self-compassion or how can we, another way to talk about it is validate ourselves and say, this is so hard. Look how much I'm dealing with right now. How can we do that if we don't actually acknowledge everything we're carrying in?
House Of Peregrine (13:24)
Look at this immense loss. Look at everything that's going away or is no longer available to you. That's the first step. Okay.
Melissa Parks (13:27)
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
The very first step is just acknowledging how hard that is. And then the next step and I'll just, I'm going to walk you through the self compassion now. So we've got mindfulness, the mindfulness of self compassion, acknowledging everything. And again, not getting sucked into it, right? Like, so just not getting sucked into like, I guess sucked into the grief of it or like the wallowing in it. We want to feel the feeling, but we don't want to like over identify with the feeling. We don't want to get
House Of Peregrine (13:41)
Perfect. Yes.
Melissa Parks (13:59)
I can sucked into it. And then a big piece that people don't really have any idea about that is part of self-compassion is common humanity. And it's one my clients struggle with so much because so often they're like, this shouldn't be a big deal. Like there are people in the world who are suffering so much more. doesn't matter is what I'm gonna say. But I mean, obviously those things matter. But what matters is that anyone.
going through your difficult situation, even though it might not be uncommon or might not be very common, people maybe aren't talking about it, right? I think we don't talk enough about the challenges of globally mobile life. Even though people aren't talking about it, it is so hard and it's something another person would struggle with too. Like you're not alone, even though you might feel alone with the pain, you're not alone. And so that's like the second piece. And then is the self-kindness piece, which is what we usually think about with self-compassion.
that's talking to ourselves like a friend, like a therapist. Like sometimes people, I tell people like, you know, if your dog could talk, what would they say to you right now? You know, like sometimes it's our pets who love us so much and that's the kind of love and unconditional love that we need to tap into. ⁓ This is not.
House Of Peregrine (15:13)
And so that would look like
something like, look at how much you're carrying, you're doing so much. This is talking to yourself in almost like the third person, or like witnessing yourself.
Melissa Parks (15:22)
Yes. like, yeah, yeah,
yeah. I guess I never thought about like, yeah, but I guess like, so I might say something to myself like, Melissa, this is so hard. ⁓ Anyone else like dealing with this would be having such a hard time too. You're not alone. There's nothing wrong with you. I'm here for you. That's something we can say or, you know, you've got this. can be, you know, it can be something as simple as you've got this, right? Like you've been through other hard things and...
⁓ I believe in you. Really, I mean, you got to bring your own kind of flair into it and your own personality. And the thing I was going to say too is this is not easy, right? I'm kind of like, okay, you do step one, step two, step three. This is not easy. We don't do this. We don't talk to ourselves like this. So ⁓ it takes so much practice to be able to upgrade ourselves in this way.
House Of Peregrine (15:59)
Yeah.
Yep, it does take so much practice.
But this does bring you more fully into being able to soothe yourself, especially in systems where there's not a lot of support or voice or knowledge in how to support someone through this. so even if done imperfectly, just having a resource, even if it's hard, is better than having no resource at all. that'll be, and so what is the, is there a fourth step?
Melissa Parks (16:19)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Yes, agreed.
There's not
a four, it's just three steps. That's, but that's why I said it's not, it's not simple, but it's just three steps. ⁓ yeah. And that, that's.
House Of Peregrine (16:40)
Three steps, okay.
Yep. Yes. And so those are really good. Yeah, those are really good to
go over. then also, as an example, it would be like in your case, Melissa, look at everything you've lost, your visa, your home, your love, your extended family there. ⁓ Anyone in your situation would feel overwhelmed and like they don't know where to go and like their life has fallen apart. We can just take the next big step.
Melissa Parks (16:54)
Bye.
House Of Peregrine (17:12)
We've got this, we'll be okay. That would be an example of using all three steps.
Melissa Parks (17:15)
Yeah.
Yes, Mikala, it was great. I wish I could send you back in time and tell myself that because I didn't have self-compassion back then. didn't know this, but I had a therapist and that, you know, she was like my compassionate voice, right? Who was helping me to very slowly learn some of this stuff.
House Of Peregrine (17:22)
Yeah.
Yeah, and be a witness to what you're going through because would you say, and this is just a question and partially my experience has been, but not a lot of people understand that. They'll think, it's just a breakup and that your family back home can't quite understand because they just see it as a breakup and actually a bonus because you might come back. ⁓ So your best friends, so there's, it's really sometimes difficult to find.
Melissa Parks (17:38)
Yes.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
House Of Peregrine (18:01)
even therapists that understand the full complexity of what's happening for you when it just looks like a breakup.
Melissa Parks (18:08)
I I know. think before it happened to me, I don't think I would have had the same level of empathy. I think I might have just seen as a breakup. I say I needed that breakup in order to become a good therapist because I had to live that feeling of feeling like your life is falling apart. Yeah. And it wasn't just a breakup. And I got very lucky, I think, that I found a therapist who, she really, she, again, she validated for me.
House Of Peregrine (18:21)
Mm, yeah.
Melissa Parks (18:38)
that it wasn't just a breakup, that I had lost everything. And that's what I was like, ⁓ God, I had been thinking that this just isn't a big deal and I should just snap out of it. And ⁓ my inner critic.
House Of Peregrine (18:48)
Yep. But your body, your body really knew
your body knew your, your, maybe your subconscious before she was able to surface these things, you already, your body knew. And that's why, that's why the work is so important. And so on that, sometimes our body does do that. And even when it's good news, like a relocation, when you're excited and you're ready for a new adventure, you're still
Melissa Parks (18:55)
Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (19:13)
There's a lot of things that come up or are stored or happening that we may not be aware of. And so, ⁓ yeah, this is when sometimes we see stress on relationships that wasn't there before or on children or finances or on your body where in your experience you had physical symptoms that you could not explain. And so talk me through that a little bit.
Melissa Parks (19:25)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. I, it's, again, I talk about it in the book. Like I think I am logically, like, I guess theoretically good at transitions. Like I know what you need. I know how transitions work. I know they're difficult, but I can't convince my body of that. I have, I'm trying to accept, still trying to accept that it is really hard on my body to go through big changes, like a big move.
or in more recent years, I found this when I've had children, especially that first child. My body was like, this is so too much, too much. ⁓ But in the book I talk about how, with relocation, I had panic attacks, had insomnia, ⁓ stomach distress. My body was saying, I love the adventure of it. Again, like,
My mind loves it and I love the stimulation and the learning and everything, but my body is kind of like dragging its feet through the whole thing and it is physiological overwhelm. And part of me just wants to be like, well body, like just deal with it. But no, of course not, right?
House Of Peregrine (20:49)
Yeah.
I see that as one trait that people who move abroad on purpose or like, they have an unusually, an unusual amount of ability to push past that stuff like you. ⁓ And then the body catches up somewhere, it catches you somewhere. And whether it's in your body or again, like I said, all the other places.
Melissa Parks (21:16)
Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (21:16)
And
so how can we do that more mindfully? ⁓ This is what I'm always encouraging people to do because I truly believe it makes for healthier place. You're going, place you're leaving, family systems. It's approaching something like this with a little bit. And sometimes people say, if I knew I wouldn't have done it, right? So that's part of it. Like if I knew what it would have cost me, I wouldn't do it. So I had to just leap. And I understand that. But
Melissa Parks (21:28)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm, yeah.
House Of Peregrine (21:45)
There is a big movement of people moving countries that's larger than it's ever been. And so I would love to encourage people to do this a bit more mindfully, knowing. And so what would you suggest? Like, is there something small or effective that you've seen that can help people maybe do this a little bit more mindfully so that it's not such a trauma on the body, on the system, place?
Melissa Parks (21:49)
Yes.
Yeah, it's very true. yeah, I've definitely had those moments where I look back and think, if I knew everything, would I have gone? But I think, just go. No, but I agree. I really encourage people to also be intentional about it, be intentional about your move. I think a few things. A very small thing is just,
House Of Peregrine (22:17)
Yes, yeah, no. That's why it's called an adventure. We get it.
Melissa Parks (22:35)
taking some time to be with yourself, right? Because I think we can get so caught up with the to-do list and the logistical to-do list, but also thinking about the emotional and mental well-being to-do list, which is spending some time with yourself, saying goodbye. That's something that we, myself included, usually don't like are those goodbyes. But closing...
House Of Peregrine (22:42)
Yeah.
And we have
ceremonies for that, so you know, House of Paragony makes ceremonies for that. yeah, yeah. But keep going. Yeah, yeah.
Melissa Parks (22:58)
Oh, that's amazing. I love that. I love that. It's so important.
I was just going to say, if you want to open up a new chapter abroad, it's so important to close that last chapter. And it doesn't mean that you're never moving back, right? But life will never be the same again, right? So I really like thinking about it in terms of book, right? If this is end of this chapter, we're starting a new chapter.
House Of Peregrine (23:19)
Yep. Yep.
Yep. And that is true whether you move abroad or not, but it's less stark. It's less stark. It's less clear. And it's also something that comes through in career transitions, like more and more people don't have the same career for their entire career. They change careers or industries. And so these transitions, if not done mindfully, is they catch up. And so I love this. So keep going. I interrupted you.
Melissa Parks (23:28)
Yes it is. Yes.
Yeah.
no, it's okay. Well, I just think you make me think of something there too. I think when we have these big transitions, we have to be ready for the grief that can come with them. And even if it's a positive thing, it's a loss, right? You're saying goodbye to something, you're losing something. And I think in our culture, in our most, not most of the world, but just like in probably the culture, a lot of your listeners are from those cultures are not.
good at dealing with grief. And so we just try to hurry past it and that, you know, then we bring baggage with ourselves.
House Of Peregrine (24:28)
Yeah, and I would also add, feel like you don't have the right to the grief. That's something when I was leaving, I was like, I have no right to feel sad. I'm the one choosing to leave, everyone else is sad. I am getting something new, I'm having an adventure, I'm so lucky. But I didn't give myself permission to have the grief and to have the goodbyes because I didn't think that it was available. Like I shouldn't,
Melissa Parks (24:35)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Yes.
Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (24:59)
Like I was doing the bad thing. I was leaving right and so that was a big part of my journey is Being like no, I also am sad that doesn't mean I don't want to do it, but I'm also sad and that's okay
Melissa Parks (25:03)
Yes!
Yes.
Yeah, yeah. Going back to the book, but it's something I've seen with clients too, is really just letting yourself feel all the feelings. I have this scene in my book where I talk about I'm getting ready to repatriate. I'm going through my clothes that I'm not going to bring with me. And I just kind of collapse in a ball of tears on the bed. And I say, if somebody would have walked in, they would have thought that somebody had died.
They hadn't and my inner critic was definitely like they're saying like you're overreacting. But I had the self-compassion to lean on to be like, this is the grief of repatriation. ⁓ And it could be the same as this is the grief of moving abroad because it's so hard to leave a life behind. You can have both things. You can feel excited and grieve at the same time. And I think we also don't know how to hold such conflicting feelings.
House Of Peregrine (26:08)
Yeah, that paradox is something you get a lot more practice with when you live abroad than maybe in everyday life. But you really are, you are, there is a death and it's the death of the person that you have been. And that's a true, it doesn't have to be a physical death to be ending in a death. And so that's a really, really good point. And maybe someone would have said, maybe you shouldn't do this. That's the other thing. It seems like you don't wanna do this because you're so upset. And it's like, that's not it either.
Melissa Parks (26:12)
Yes!
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, you don't want this. You can't handle this. That's what I a lot of clients who tell me like they come to me because they're just in so much distress or overwhelm. This must be a sign that this is a bad idea or this must be a sign that I made a mistake. I'm like, well, maybe, right? Like, I mean, I don't want to invalidate that, but it's usually not that it's usually just that we don't know how to deal with these tough feelings. And so, you know,
healing it back and ⁓ kind of seeing more of what's there and learning tools to manage some of those feelings. You know, that's what I'd say to anybody who's like trying to do this intentionally is like work on your toolbox now, ⁓ maybe a therapist or coach now before you even go, or just like at least have some names or find a community like yours, right? because that, gosh, that common humanity piece I mentioned earlier, that doesn't just mean reminding ourselves like in a vacuum that we're not alone.
It also means connecting with people, finding your community in person, online. So you could talk about this really hard stuff and be reminded that you're not alone.
House Of Peregrine (27:44)
Yeah. And people need people and that your neighbors in Madrid or in the Netherlands are not going to understand your process. They're not going to understand the unique challenges. That's what we always say. So I really liked the way I'm just moving on from this. I want to step into another portal that you had, which is ⁓ you use the word home and I really layered way throughout the book. And
Melissa Parks (27:51)
No, no.
Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (28:14)
that resonated and I just want to go a little bit into that and just like really make it concrete for people about what you're how you're using it. So just tell us tell us what about home.
Melissa Parks (28:23)
Yeah, I know. Well,
even as you said, like, what is home? Like, how do we define? I feel like this is, yes, I write about it a lot in the book, but also it's a question I still like explore, you know, what does it mean to be at home?
House Of Peregrine (28:35)
Yeah. Yep.
Melissa Parks (28:39)
I mean, yeah, because like you were saying earlier, if your heart is broken in multiple places around the globe, what does that mean about where home is? I think for me, what I've mostly landed on, again, although I still roll it around in my head, but it's in. Yes, like I say, there's no, we're on, there's no destination. We're on a journey. But I really think it's this feeling, a feeling at home.
House Of Peregrine (28:53)
It's, yes, it's in progress just like the rest of us.
Melissa Parks (29:09)
home or feeling belonging and acceptance in your own body and with your own self. That's what I've landed on more. When I think about going home, I think about a place where you feel safe, where you can take off your shoes and you can be who you want. Just be completely yourself. I do think that comes with the belonging. think that comes with the self-acceptance and...
I do feel like I can say I feel at home with myself now in a way that I never would have been able to when I was moving abroad.
House Of Peregrine (29:45)
Yeah, and that's layered, right? So I wanted to say two things about that. And I want to, with permission, talk about, I think it's okay to talk about your neurodivergent journey is one part. And then the other part I want to talk about is like code switching and how that fits into the self. Because my kids will say, when I speak Dutch, I feel like one kind of person. And then it's not that I change, but I just have another version. It's both me. And so I'd like to
Melissa Parks (29:49)
Yeah.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, let's talk about it.
Hmm. Yes!
Yes.
House Of Peregrine (30:14)
if we can't, those are two huge subjects, but I would like to, let's start with that one, the multi-selves, and then I would like to talk about your journey of that new layer of awareness in yourself. And so, yeah, talk about code switching or how do you refer to it when you are, maybe have different parts of yourself.
Melissa Parks (30:16)
Yeah, I know. I'm like, which one do we start with?
The Nerd Avergence. Yeah.
Yeah!
Mm-hmm. I don't know if I actually have a good way to talk about it. I know one way I don't like to talk about it very much is like the chameleon. I feel like the chameleon feels too much like the mask, which we'll get to also with the Nerd-a-Virgin piece. Yeah. Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (30:46)
Yep. Ooh, that's such a good point. ⁓ that's the other thing I wanted to cover. Yes. So,
so maybe let's go through your lens of chameleon and your story of being the queen of Seattle.
Melissa Parks (30:57)
Yes.
my goodness, yes. Yes. I feel like, yeah, for most, so much of my life, it was more like, what do other people need of me? ⁓ Brene Brown talks about something like related to this that I like, which is the fitting in versus belonging. And gosh, so I spent the most of my life trying to fit in. did not.
I think I've had certain spaces where I felt like I belonged, but I had no clue of what belonging even was, right? I mean, but not that I even knew that I didn't know what belonging was. ⁓ And so I think I, interestingly, and it's where I needed to be. I mean, honestly, without even realizing it, I would walk into a room and just, you know, slow figure out, okay, who do I need to show up as here? And I was really good at it. And I did a lot of cool things. Like I was the queen of Seattle.
House Of Peregrine (31:40)
You just became whoever you needed to be.
Melissa Parks (31:56)
But I wasn't, it was slowly eating me alive. And I think maybe on some level, like my body knew that and that's why was like, well, okay, let's go to the other side of the world and we'll figure out like who you actually are, ⁓ which is very romanticized. What was that?
House Of Peregrine (32:09)
Eat, Pray, Love style.
It's like Eat, Pray, Love.
Melissa Parks (32:14)
Well, I mean, Eat, Pray, Love was a huge inspiration for me, so kind of. Although I was very happy I met my husband, but I was happy that my takeaway was a little bit more self-love related. But let's see. Yeah. So the chameleon... I'm kind of thinking out loud here as I'm talking about it, as I'm like, I definitely wanted to move away from that.
House Of Peregrine (32:19)
Yep. Yep.
So from going to the chameleon, how do we, yeah, go ahead.
Melissa Parks (32:39)
I definitely wanted to... when... This was something that happened with the breakup. I think up until that point when my life abroad, I was still trying to fit in. And honestly, knowing how to fit in really helps when you go abroad, right? That's the tricky thing. It helps so much. And so I think what it... I will say like, so then after that, I was like, okay, you know, maybe I should stop trying to be Spanish. Like I think that's one thing I want. I was like, I want to have all the Spanish friends and I'm speak Spanish. And I'm going to be, you know...
belong, well, but I wasn't really belonging. I was fitting in with all the Spanish people and I did it and it helped me with my grad school program. But it cost me so much because and that's the thing, that's thing I want to say is like, I think part of it is just finding like the fine line, like where can you go into spaces and know who you need to be and how you need to show up. ⁓ But also maybe limit those spaces, right? ⁓
Yeah, but then it is an interesting question as you say, like, what if you belong in several different spaces and so you kind of have a true authentic version of yourself that's different in those different spaces?
House Of Peregrine (33:52)
I've heard some people describe it as the same way we're describing place, which is you're actually never at home or fully at home in one place. So you're a little bit fragmented, but becoming okay with that is how I've heard some people describe it where it's like, yeah, they're both me, but luckily, like I have different versions of myself that are all the same route. ⁓ But that's the kaleidoscope of my
personality is it includes these different permeations of it, ⁓ which is where I think it's not the same, like when on your journey to discovering, because you were telling us your journey about becoming, realizing that you're neurodiverse maybe, and this plays a little bit in here. And I do think more there as a higher population of neurodiversity in the population of international people than the
Melissa Parks (34:26)
Yeah. Yes.
Yum.
House Of Peregrine (34:52)
normal population according to some research that we'll link below. And so I really want to talk about that a little bit with you as part of not knowing something about yourself and this greater self-knowing.
Melissa Parks (34:55)
Interesting.
Yeah. So,
yes. So an interesting thing in my book and I haven't been talking about it a lot because I don't think it's the biggest takeaway of the book, but it was something I felt like I had to include in the book. But I include it kind of as a footnote at the very, not a footnote, but know, it's an afterward. I knew I was differently wired in some sort of way. I talk about being highly sensitive.
and how healing that was for me to realize like, I'm a deeply feeling person. But it wasn't until I was like almost finished with the book that I started to think, I actually think I'm autistic. And that was ⁓ something, it was kind of a, it was reading about my childhood and realizing like, kind of seeing my childhood through this unmasked lens of like,
⁓ I was like a very rigid thinker. It was very exhausting for me to be in social situations. I was always going into those situations, trying to figure out how I was supposed to show up. And then something to add to is that my, I don't mention this in the book, but ⁓ maybe it'll be the next book. My son was diagnosed with autism and I was like, ⁓ if he's autistic, I'm autistic.
House Of Peregrine (36:12)
Mm.
Chances are,
that's what kind of happens in the room, right? You get the, tells you this about your child and then they kind of look at you like, well, this is highly genetic and they look back and forth and.
Melissa Parks (36:24)
And
we've learned so much about neurodivergence, like autism, ADHD, the whole umbrella of neurodivergence in women since I was growing up in the 80s and 90s. ⁓ So much about that. And also like the more like less typical version, I guess, or just like the maybe somebody who needs less support needs or like...
less pronounced symptoms. mean, I got trained as a psychologist and I didn't know what autism was. So if I don't put it as like the general population probably isn't going to know. ⁓
House Of Peregrine (37:01)
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah, it's like
an emerging field at best.
Melissa Parks (37:09)
Yes, it is, it is.
And something like, I've actually gotten an official diagnosis ⁓ now, but one thing like even the person who, the psychologist who diagnosed me was like, we talked about ADHD because I think it's that, the ADHD is especially the common thing that shows up in expats because it's like that search for dopamine and new adventures and things. And I don't see that as much in my childhood, but it also, it's...
It's hard when you have like the autism NADHD, the odd HD, it's hard to untangle. But I really wonder if that's the part of me. I talk about it in a different lens in the book, like a high sensation seeker. And maybe it was like that side of me that was like, let's do it, let's go, let's buy the plane ticket. And then the autistic part is like, what did you sign us up for?
House Of Peregrine (37:55)
Let's forget. Yeah. What are we doing?
Where are we going again? We didn't tell you because we thought you'd ruin it.
Melissa Parks (38:04)
Yes. And
we'll go, but only if we get to write a book about it.
House Of Peregrine (38:10)
Yeah, there we go, there we go. That's sophisticated coping right there. No, but I think
this identity, this gaining an identity, not an identity, a diagnosis is an identity, but a new awareness about how you experience the world differently than you thought you did and differently than how you thought everyone else did is cultural in its own way. And so for me in your book, that's like the...
Melissa Parks (38:33)
Mmm, yeah.
House Of Peregrine (38:38)
you've had that experience too, like so many layers of deepening into yourself, self-knowledge, self-learning to get to a place of coming home to yourself. That is what makes it a rich experience instead of a traumatic experience, even though it can be both. ⁓ But these things, they're gonna find you in this journey.
Melissa Parks (38:40)
God.
Okay.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
House Of Peregrine (39:05)
because people who live in the same place their whole lives can sometimes ignore this stuff. It doesn't put as much pressure on your sense of self, your sense of culture, your sense of belonging. And so whether it's dysfunctional, functional, we're not gonna talk about that, but I love your story because it goes through all these different layers of self-knowledge ⁓ and parses them out through this sense of.
Melissa Parks (39:19)
You
House Of Peregrine (39:30)
because going from a chameleon to here and then repatriating has its own masks. And so is a beautiful part of what you've brought to the world. And so I just really love that you've done that and that you're helping other people do it. so that, how did that, I mean, I know you said that you've gone and you've taken your career with you because we know that you're never the same again. It's not like you're,
Melissa Parks (39:35)
Mmm.
Thank you.
House Of Peregrine (39:58)
once an expat and then you're not an expat anymore or an international person. This is a permanent life change. Like this is a permanent paradigm shift you're signing up for. And so I want to talk to you as we, as a last question, like how are you helping people kind of land in this new reality? It's like, yeah, your kids, guess what? They're not, you know, if you have kids, if you have a partner, you have a multicultural partnership, you said.
Melissa Parks (39:58)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yes.
.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
House Of Peregrine (40:27)
And so people don't often see these changes, but they are a paradigm shift. And so how are you helping them land in that?
Melissa Parks (40:27)
I
Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's true. I, you said something earlier, like your neighbors abroad won't understand what you're going through. My neighbors, I live in the same, I moved back to the same suburb where I grew up. Like people see me and are like, ⁓ okay. You went and had your adventure. You're back. I'm like, well, I'm a totally different person now, but I'm totally different. Yeah. Yes.
House Of Peregrine (40:42)
Yeah, no.
Yeah, yeah. But you seem the same. I'm sure you're not, but you seem really
the same. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but also, no, no, no, it's not judging, but it is easier to talk about with them. Because it's not like you're going to be like, yeah, I lived in Paris and I did this and that is like your life is a dream and you're like, yeah, but there I would like to talk about the heart. That's.
Melissa Parks (41:02)
you see, yeah, what have you been doing? That is not how I see it. If anybody's listening, I don't judge you like that. ⁓
Yeah.
Totally.
Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (41:23)
Part of going
deeper into a relationship is talking about both sides and they just can't see it. So it's easier to talk about them and what hasn't changed, I can imagine.
Melissa Parks (41:32)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Life is life wherever you are in the world, no matter how glamorous it looks. But back to your question, how do I help people? know, I think it's, I, this is another one of those things that it's still a journey for me of figuring it out. But what I've found most, which I've kind of, is that I, I support people through transition. So whether that's you're getting ready to move abroad, you have moved abroad.
House Of Peregrine (41:38)
That's right.
Melissa Parks (42:00)
You're getting ready to repatriate. You're trying to decide where to go next. That's when people reach out to me. But so often that's where we start and that's not where we finish because it's like that is the, that's the beginning of the adventure of working with me. But so often, like for instance, you know, I have clients for instance, who will repatriate and
we need to work through the grief of saying goodbye and wondering if you made the right choice and dealing with the things, know, the feelings that come up that don't make sense. But then also it's, okay, so I used to live like a whole ocean away from my family. ⁓ I realized that like I'm a different person than I was growing up or in that I don't want a relationship to be the same. Maybe it's dysfunctional now. So actually I need to like learn some tools to deal with that. ⁓
And I love that work. Like that's the stuff that really lights me up. ⁓ So I love it when I work with people for a longer, it doesn't have to be a long time, but you know, maybe it's just more than a few sessions that we work together. So I don't tend to do coaching. Like I've tried out like packages and like, let's work together three months and have this end goal. I just don't find that that's where I kind of jive with people. It usually is like, let's get you in to work on this one thing and then let's see if we want to go deeper than that.
House Of Peregrine (43:22)
Yeah. Yeah. And that's really smart. And it's also a relationship, right? And that's what people sometimes, sometimes the most effective therapy is it is a therapeutic relationship, right? And so it's hard, it's good to have boundaries on it. But when you're dealing with these deeper, I mean, repatriating, expatriating, moving, it's like, if one person has one divorce in their life, that's like a defining moment to bring up
Melissa Parks (43:27)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (43:51)
personal stuff. But when you're doing all of this, having babies, moving countries, maybe getting divorced, maybe having a breakup, maybe your parent dies, you are at such a high level of where your inner like stuff is being tortured or brought up or exercised or thriving. But without someone to guide you, can be a
Melissa Parks (43:57)
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (44:19)
Well, first of all, it's less fruitful. It can be more damaging. Again, this is where we get into some trauma. so having a relationship with someone who can help you kind of conceptualize some of this stuff cannot be overstated.
Melissa Parks (44:22)
Yeah.
Yeah,
and that's what I found. So I'm trained as a therapist. I left the therapy hat behind when I moved back to the US because therapy does not, I see this all the time in my work with location independent therapists. It does not work well across borders. There are therapists who are able to do it. It is tricky and just, it's a long story, but I just decided that coaching is the better lens for how I can support people whose lives are
probably gonna take them all over the globe and places that maybe my license wouldn't have allowed me to continue working with them. I have clients who reach out after years to ask me to work through something together and I want to be able to continue to offer that. yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (45:17)
And that's a unique thing, Like licenses don't go across borders. And this
is one of those things that is unique. The systems and licenses and trainings and all of these infrastructure things we have that people take for granted if you stay in a country your whole life, they don't translate. And so you have to evolve even more when you're living abroad, especially if you're in a profession that requires a license, a nurse, a architect, a teacher.
Melissa Parks (45:33)
Yeah.
You too.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
House Of Peregrine (45:46)
⁓ These things
matter and so this is your adaptation and it also happens to work better for your style of working. yeah, you're a 360 example of, or maybe even more dimensions of what this life brings up and about and brings you through.
Melissa Parks (45:54)
Yeah, it's worked well.
Yeah, yeah, you're talking about it in such a positive way, which I love because I think about it in that way too. I think about that living abroad for however long you go abroad, whether it's your whole life or it's, you know, just it's a few years, maybe even a few months. I love to see it as an invitation. It's an invitation to go deeper. And I think a lot of times the struggles people have are because they don't want to go deeper because it's scary.
House Of Peregrine (46:27)
Yep. Yep.
Melissa Parks (46:34)
because we don't have the tools usually to deal with that kind of stuff. ⁓ I didn't want to go deeper and life kind of forced me to go deeper when I had that breakup. so, yeah, that's kind of, I hope some people will read the book and realize like, okay, I want not this exact experience, but I want to go deeper.
House Of Peregrine (46:54)
Yeah, because it is, it's again, most people have, everyone has grief, right? We're never making this out of life alive and no one we care about. So those big moments of whatever you want to call it, these opportunities, these breaks again, are fewer for people who live in the same place. And that's merciful in some ways, of course, like your first loved one you lose. But if you live abroad or if you're
Melissa Parks (47:00)
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you.
House Of Peregrine (47:21)
you live abroad even as a kid, your loss ratio is much, much higher. And so with that, with that, the opportunity to grow. And so you don't get one without the other kids. I'm just saying. Yeah.
Melissa Parks (47:28)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
You don't.
But I like to think it makes life richer too, right? Like, I mean, it's the more, not exactly like it works like this, but you know, can't feel joy, full of joy without feeling the pain too. Not like you experience more grief, you get more joy. But you can't have the full expression of human emotions if you don't let yourself feel the hard things too.
House Of Peregrine (48:01)
Yeah, yeah. that's, I just, that's what I want people to know. And I want people, need people around them because again, like you said, we say it all the time at House of Peregrine, life will never be the same again. And the faster you can accept that, the more fun you can have maybe, because again, if you think that moving to a new country is not gonna change you or your relationships or your finances or your parenting,
You're up for a rude awakening.
Melissa Parks (48:34)
Yes, and also that
like, think a lot of times people are like, oh, it's going to change me, but it's going to be like so great and fun. it's really hard to change. Exactly. Yes. Yeah.
House Of Peregrine (48:41)
You're gonna be crying on the floor. You're gonna be on your bed crying like someone died and that's okay.
And that doesn't, I never try and scare anybody out of it. It's a little bit like parenthood too. It's like, yeah, but it's totally worth it.
Melissa Parks (48:55)
Yes.
That's it. I do think it's so much like parenting. And actually that's like the next book I want to write is about parenting and the adventures of parenting and realizing I'm neurodivergent as a parent because I do. It's a journey into the unknown and it's again not logical, but it's so fulfilling and it will tear you apart and put like put a mirror up to your face and show you all the things that ways you need to grow that maybe you don't want to. But it's great.
House Of Peregrine (49:25)
And then that puts you back together, puts
you back together. That usually happens. That's what we're trying to encourage. ⁓ But it is, it is, it is a brave thing to do. And I love that you are helping people do this with grace and being intentional and healthy and bringing your own story to the world. So thank you for writing this book. I can't wait for it to come out and for people to read it. And tell me a little bit as we wrap up.
Melissa Parks (49:27)
Yes, exactly. Yeah, exactly.
It's brave. Yeah.
Bye.
House Of Peregrine (49:53)
Where can people reach out to you they want to work with you or learn more about you?
Melissa Parks (49:58)
Yeah, so I mean, the best place is my website, melissaparks.com. There you'll find links to LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, not on TikTok, sorry. It's too overwhelming for my brain. And right up there, you'll find links to sign up for my newsletter, learn more about my book. ⁓ My book will be out June 23rd and then...
House Of Peregrine (50:09)
You're allowed. We'll allow it.
Melissa Parks (50:23)
If you sign up for emails about it, you'll also find out when pre-orders open, which are gonna be a couple of weeks beforehand. It'll be available as an ebook or a physical copy ⁓ to people around the world. So ⁓ you'll be able to get your hands on it. ⁓ And then also I have ⁓ something I'd invite your listeners to consider. I have ⁓ a five-day inner critic to self-compassion email series.
House Of Peregrine (50:36)
Thanks.
Melissa Parks (50:49)
So you'll be able to kind of learn a little bit more, go a little deeper with what I talked about today, and just try out some of those self-compassion exercises yourself. And it's specifically for people who are living a globally mobile life. I think it might be a great fit if you've enjoyed what we've talked about today.
House Of Peregrine (51:06)
Yeah, awesome. That's a great resource. We'll link it below. ⁓ yeah, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for going all the places we went. We covered a lot. So I appreciate it. And yeah, thanks everyone for joining us on the House of Peregrine podcast. I would love for you to like and subscribe to our channel and leave a comment if you know what we're talking about or if you want to add anything to the conversation that we might've missed. We would love to hear from you. We read every comment.
Melissa Parks (51:13)
Yeah, we did.
House Of Peregrine (51:34)
join us next time on the House of Peregrine podcast.